farlane - 2005-01-27 10:12:04
This shocked me and I related it to a 30 something year old co-worker -- I got a blank stare in return. That an outrage of such proportions could pop like a soap bubble in a relative eyeblink of time really gives me pause.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Judging from the fact that you have access to a computer during the workday, I imagine that your co-worker and you have jobs that require a good education, so that's all the more abysmal that you'd get a blank stare.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 10:22:41
It gives me pause too, farlane, since what has been called "the world's largest graveyard" is still within living memory, for God's sake! My mom and dad were both in the war.
I can't understand how someone could have such ignorance of something so vast, so historically significant, and so unspeakably tragic.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2005-01-27 11:01:22
From Norm Geras' weblog:
In March 1942, French police arrested Charlotte Delbo and her husband, the resistance leader Georges Dudach, as they were preparing to distribute anti-German leaflets in Paris. The French turned them over to the Gestapo, who imprisoned them. Dudach was executed by firing squad in May; Delbo remained in prison until January 1943, when she was deported to Auschwitz and then to Ravensbr��ck, where she remained until the end of the war.
Delbo's memoirs of the time she spent at Auschwitz contain pages of unflinching witness and a terrible power. A man:
The man kneels. Crosses his arms. Lowers his head. The kapo steps forward. He has his club. He comes close to the kneeling man and plants his feet firmly.
The SS steps up to them with his dog.The kapo raises his club, which he holds in both hands, and delivers a blow across the small of the man's back.
Eins.
Another. Zwei.
Another. Drei.
It is the man himself who is counting. One can hear him in the interval between the blows.
Vier.
F�nf. His voice is growing weaker.
Sechs.
Sieben.
Acht. We can no longer hear him, but he is still counting. He is supposed to count up to fifty.
His head is touching the ground. Each blow imparts a tremor to his body, tearing it apart. Each blow makes us jump.
The sound of fifty blows on a man's back is interminable.
If he stopped counting, the blows would stop and start again from zero.
Fifty strokes of a club on a man's back is an endless number...
Try to look. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 11:15:17
Unspeakable scene.
I'm trying to figure out if he means "try to look" as "try to bear witness to human evil, that it won't be forgotten or repeated," or "try to look" as "try to sympathize with the beaten man, although it's hard to turn your gaze on this scene."* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2005-01-27 11:39:23
"Try to look. Just try and see." is a phrase repeated at the end of some other scenes of unspeakable evil documented by Delbo in her book. Delbo wrote in French, so I wonder if there is some nuance in French that is not translatable to English.
But, I think the phase embraces both meanings you list. Tragically, the evil documented by Delbo is being both forgotten and repeated, and even being joked about by idiots such as that parasitical twit Prince Harry.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2005-01-27 11:40:56
Er, "phrase", not "phase".* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 11:47:25
There was an extremely interesting show on NPR the other day, "Day to Day" I think. It was about how the nature of history changes when its last eyewitnesses are gone.
When the last person to speak about his or her experience is gone, history changes from truth to a political entity, said one guest. And then those passing it down sometimes fight over or distort its meaning. Like the Civil War, I suppose. Another good quote from that show was this: someone asked the guest when the Civil War ended, and he said, very thoughtfully, "I'm not sure it has...I'm not sure it has."* * * * * * * * * * * * Tuesday - 2005-01-27 13:50:57
The book "Lies My Teacher Told Me" addresses this issue. Children are not taught recent history in school because there are too many survivors still around. However, past history, where all witnesses are dead can be manipulated to the heart's content of those in power. Because of this, I find it no surprise that many Americans don't know about Auschwitz. Pathetic and sad - and dangerous, yes. I also find it no surprise given the current "anti-education" vibe in this country.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 14:05:22
I read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" and found it excellent. You are right: the book deals a lot with the manipulation of history and the selective omissions textbooks make. It's a fascinating read.
I agree, it is utterly pathetic and sad. 12 years in school, minimum (except for dropouts), and 2/3 of the country never heard of Auschwitz? Are there college graduates who never heard of Auschwitz? If so, how could that even be possible?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 15:36:12
Description of Thursday's ceremony in Poland, attended by Dick Cheney, 44 world leaders, and numerous survivors.
There are 2 slide shows on this page. The one on top, "Solemn Ceremonies Mark Auschwitz Anniversary," has more pictures but some of the captions are missing. The one on bottom, "A Somber Anniversary," has fewer but better pictures with matching captions.
The ceremony began with the playing of a recording of a train coming into the camp. It ended as darkness fell. To close the ceremony, a fire was ignited on the tracks leading into the camp. The fire ran along the tracks, heading into the camp, and stopped at the crematoria. * * * * * * * * * * * * Iss - 2005-01-27 16:17:31
I can remember being 12 or so and discovering a book lying around the house, "The Hiding Place" which documented a concentration camp/war survivor's life and story, the story of Corrie ten Boom. Her sister did not survive. (do you remember, sis?) I remember being similarly horrified and drawn to the subject, wanting to read more and more....which led to the diary of Anne Frank and other books. As far as I thought, the Diary of Anne Frank was required reading in early high school/middle school. Am I wrong in this? Even today, the thoughts and stories that I still come across regarding the Holocaust move and shake me. I hope they always do.* * * * * * * * * * * * Iss - 2005-01-27 16:21:26
.......or is teh Diary of Abbe Frank a banned book? Now that I remember, I think I was perusing the endless bookshelves at home as that 12 year old, looking for something to read, and my mom pulled it out, looked at it, and then said, "Why don't you read this?". That and the same scene with Willa Cather shows me now the importance of parenting since I never came across either outside of the house in my education or social life.* * * * * * * * * * * * Iss - 2005-01-27 16:22:41
Forgive that first line's typos: "the diary of Anne Frank". * * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-27 16:43:45
Leave it to Dick Cheney to find a positive way to connect the holocaust to our current role in Iraq.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 16:47:35
Iss: I do remember all the books you mention. I think Anne Frank pretty much is required reading somewhere along the line--though you say Mom introduced it to you and you didn't run into it otherwise.
Your thought "the thoughts and stories that I still come across regarding the Holocaust move and shake me. I hope they always do" is very well said. I feel the same way.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 16:51:44
Anna: I noticed that too. NPR played a snippet of his speech. He said something like, "And this didn't happen in some uncivilized, violent part of the world--this happened in civilized countries." Is that the quote you're thinking of? There was just something about the way he said it that made me think of Iraq.
Translation: It's not so surprising when the savages kill each other, but who would have thought Europeans would have?* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-27 16:54:47
I remember how utterly shocked I was when I read the Diary of Anne Frank in fourth grade -- I don't think my parents had ever talked of the holocaust at home -- since they lived through WWII, I guess it was one of those shared pieces of knowledge that you don't really need to talk about to know the other remembers (much like my friends and I almost never talk about 9/11, unless it comes up in the context of the hearings, or something that's currently going on -- we don't feel the need to communicate it because everyone knows exactly what happened).
I hope this year's remembrance brings it back to peoples' consciousness. I did see a program about it on CNN last night , including extremely graphic movies, photos, and witness descriptions.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-27 16:58:03
Our posts passed in the ether...
The Cheney quote I was thinking of was much more explicit, although I prefer yours -- it was something like, "The holocaust underscores the need for nations to be free and democratic" (i.e., it's OK if we kill thousands of people in the process, things like this don't happen in free nations -- although I would question his premise that Germany wasn't free -- Hitler was wildly popular -- wasn't he elected for gosh sake?)* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 17:01:12
The holocaust doesn't "underscore" anything. It just is. To say it "underscores" something is to trivialize it.
I'm fairly speechless that Cheney would be so baldly opportunistic to so shamelessly link the Holocaust to our failure in Iraq. How tawdry. How despicable. Does nothing, nothing at all, touch these people?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 17:05:32
Reading the Diary of Anne Frank as a girl was a moving experience. I believe they just published an unexpurgated version.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-27 17:06:13
Robot Cheney takes any input and outputs "____ underscores the need for nations to be democratic and free. " E.g, "Tsunamis underscore the need for nations to be democratic and free," "Crest Toothpaste underscores the need for nations to be democratic and free," "Fire trucks underscore the need for nations to be democratic and free."* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 17:15:43
I have to laugh--Crest Toothpaste underscores the need for nations to be democratic and free. (giggles) Hilarious. It's either laugh or cry I guess.
They just played another Cheney quote on the radio, and you won't believe it but he made ANOTHER reference to Iraq. He said, "The camps remind us of the necessity to call evil by its name, and to confront it wherever it happens." Something like that. * * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-27 17:16:40
Okay, I found the quote that I think I must have been thinking of (meta-thinking?):
"Free nations must maintain the will, the foresight and the strength to fight tyranny and to spread the freedom that leads to peace."
To be fair, that quote is not as abominable as my misquote, though I can't find a transcript of the whole speech, so I don't know for sure that he didn't say other things closer to what I thought he said. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 17:19:13
To me it is as abominable, since the motive is the same.
Using the 60th anniversary of Auschwitz to talk about the "fire of freedom" crap.
Can we sink any lower?* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-27 17:24:43
I found a transcript: http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/m-news+article+storyid-5182-PHPSESSID-6e2d0ef524d6a452c434c68d27ba4413.html* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-27 17:26:00
I agree that it was abominable (maybe I should have said "not as explicit") -- and you can see from the quote why I ended up remembering it the way i did -- because that's exactly what he meant us to think.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 19:52:33
That is kind of you to dig up the speech: thanks Anna.
What would a proper speech have said?
"We are here to honor the survivors. We are here to mourn the lost, our brothers and sisters in the single family of humanity. We are here to remember. We are here to pledge that this will never happen again."
That's all.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-27 20:03:17
a good CBC article on the ceremony.
An anthologized short story you won't easily find locally entitled "L & I" by Hugh Fleetwood addresses how one might participate in a deathcamp's horror and how one might profit from it. Sure, it's fiction. But as Red Green sagely tells us, "We're all in this together. Keep your stick on the ice. I'm pulling for you."
"Death Comes Easy" ed. Peter Burton, ISBN 190285246X.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-28 09:19:31
That sounds like a must-read. I'll look for it. Thanks Raymond.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2005-01-28 11:04:46
Anna, in 1930 Hitler's National Socialist (Nazi) Party won 18% of the parliamentary vote. In 1932, Hitler ran for President, winning 30% of the vote and forcing the eventual winner, Paul von Hindenburg, into a runoff. A deal was made where von Hindenburg became President and Hitler became Chancellor. After von Hindenburg's death in 1934, Hitler assumed dictatorial powers and began ruthlessly purging, through arrests and executions, all opposition.* * * * * * * * * * * * Iss - 2005-01-28 15:55:38
On a day of Detroit-driving and Ypsi-cheesesteak-hunting, I heard on some talk radio that while the crowd at Auschwitz was braving the cold dressed in somber black overcoats and mostly bare heads, Dick Cheney was dressed in a green puffy parka, hiking boots, and a knit ski cap with logo. Sounds as if his heart was in it. His wife was dressed appropriately. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-28 15:58:35
Yay, you're home safe!
The Gabriel's cheesesteak is already gone and was goooood--thank you sis!
Yep, I heard that about Cheney too. Guess he thought that, you know, it wasn't gonna be a solemn ceremony or anything. When I heard about his outfit, I thought he was spitting in the survivors' faces. There is no excuse for such slobbishness.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-28 16:05:47
Here's slobby Cheney. A Washington fashion writer said, "The vice president...was dressed in the kind of attire one typically wears to operate a snow blower." Note the guy in the back checking him out. What a slob.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
poor, misunderstood Dick. He's so busy in his dank lair, hammering out policy and charting a future for his ungrateful countrymen, that he doesn't have time to think about appropriate attire. It's surprising that a soulless parasite like Dick has to wear cold weather gear - I assumed he had figured out a way to leach energy directly from the warm-blooded creatures around him* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-28 16:42:50
cute. I had to laugh at that. But, really, did dogs break into his hotel & eat his good coat? Otherwise, there's no excuse for this. At any rate.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-01-28 16:44:57
Maybe the vice is still running 30W and his valves are thick with goo clogging his pump.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-28 16:46:54
Perhaps. The logoed ski cap is a nice touch.* * * * * * * * * * * * LF - 2005-01-28 16:50:36
Laura - you're right, there's no excuse. It's just one more embarassment for the US* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-28 16:52:16
It is an embarrassment, indeed. * * * * * * * * * * * * tumbleweed - 2005-01-28 17:47:01
(blows in)
Gosh, I sure hope there aren't any other important details about world war two that most people have forgotten about!
(blows out)* * * * * * * * * * * *
tumbleweed - 2005-01-28 17:54:52(blows back in)
...and sorry I didn't beat around the bush, but I am a tumbleweed after all!
(blows back out)* * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2005-01-28 19:50:48All this blowing about has me quite dizzy, or maybe it's this Guardian story from your second link that draws a dotted line between concentration camp slave labor at Auschwitz and the Bush dynasty.
Perhaps there's a reason Cheney went instead of GW. Maybe to ward off any journalists writing stories that make uncomfortable connections.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-28 21:40:01
there's a huge Metafilter discussion of what's now being called "parkagate."* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-29 11:43:49
Tom, I was under the impression that Germany at that time was not a two party system. If so, 30% of the vote is a large percentage.
Anna, from the pointedness of that dignified gentleman's pose, I have a sneaking suspicion that when he saw a photographer snapping away, he inclined his head just so, in order to pointedly convey his restrained disbelief.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2005-01-29 12:56:23
i think it's very, very, probable cheney dressed that way in a calculated appeal to his and dubya's fan-base. All through the election two main points i heard repeatedly involved the facts that bush was 'just a regular guy' and kerry was 'an uppity snob'. By 'dressing down' for a photo op, even when it's in horrible taste like it is here, 'average americans' will see a bunch of foreign dignitaries wearing black overcoats (something most americans don't wear), with mr. "good old boy" smack in the middle of every picture. If this country apparently doesn't remember auschwitz, it follows they wouldn't really see the problem with him not 'dressing up' to show respect for it.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-29 13:46:53
Sounds somewhat likely to me.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-01-29 16:40:39
C'mon, folks. Refinement, good manners, and respect are so "Old Europe." Remember: ours is the classless society (no class whatsoever).
By the way, did you catch the news snippets about the VMI boys wearing Nazi outfits to the Halloween party? Nice poses those lads struck.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-29 19:27:48
Yeah, good point. I guess we should be glad that he just looked sloppy.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-30 12:58:05
Raymond: I Googled up some stories about it, but I hadn't heard of it till you mentioned it. The kids apparently were totally indignant that they'd been called on it, instead of, you know, ashamed.
Anna: apparently this was a multi-day ceremony and someone clued Cheney in so that on the second day he was dressed in an all-black outfit with black coat (no parka).* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-31 09:18:41
I meant sloppy... as opposed to wearing an SS uniform...* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: