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Comments:
YD - 2005-03-15 10:58:41 That is a well-informed comment that adds detail to this whole picture; thanks YD. $80K seems like a hefty wage. On the other hand, this is a 600-townhouse development, which seems to me to be a large enough complex to support the type of position you describe--but that's only my opinion. At any rate, why is Section 8 so complicated that it needs its very own admin person to decode the paperwork?* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-15 11:07:54 up-close-and-personal experience showed me how persons with cancer, especially later stage, are shunned and rejected by systems and people. it aint pretty. at the same time the supporters who avoid the woodwork and step forth help patients survive.* * * * * * * * * * * * Ingrid - 2005-03-15 11:10:29 This figure of 80 grand seems quite high. University Townhouses has a staff already, and they should be able to absorb the extra paperwork without that much expense to avoid such an unjust result. University Townhouses and the adjacent Forest Hills Cooperative are two of the few remaining affordable housing complexes left in Ann Arbor, and residents with section 8 subsidies shouldn't be excluded from the Townhouses. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 11:15:02 Raymond: She is in stage 4 of breast cancer, says the article.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 11:16:24 The ACLU seems to have stepped out from the woodwork to help her, thus far. * * * * * * * * * * * * Carpe Carp - 2005-03-15 11:17:00 Benifits are 75% on average in addition to wages. So if you were to charge someone for actual costs of a persons time, a 45 thousand wage, then add 30 to 35 for medical, retirment, workers comp, optical, dental, etc. Try reading the Federal Registar on a daily basis or be involved in government burecracy. Think mountains of paper, changing rules, military, government waste, excessive accountability (that fails) This will give you a perspective. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/24cfr982_00.html* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-15 11:17:22 she's got me beat. only made it to IIIb so far.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 11:20:18 Carpe Carp: the link you supplied gives a good example of the staggering array of forms pertinent to this sort of situation. * * * * * * * * * * * * Carpe Carp - 2005-03-15 11:29:12 It sounds like such a simple plan and solution. But it is not as easy as it seems. Plus section 8 certificate holders are faced with a huge amount of government scrutiny. Criminal bacround checks, income checks, etc. If household family size changes, the apartment size must be changed, ie, more moving costs, hassles, more govment hassle. It's not like you snap your fingers and you get section 8 anywhere. Too bad its not as easy as starting a war. It can be a hole or trap as well. If your income climbs, so does your rent. There is not much incentive to improve yourself. This doesn't seem to be the case in question though. But its not a golden fix. And there is a tendancy for project based section 8 to go to hell. Look at Mad Max Villa or similar section 8 acceting places.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-03-15 11:32:55 It sounds like she won't make it long; maybe the solution would have been to absorb her rent instead of hire an extra person to deal with the paperwork. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 11:35:48 YD: that is another informative comment. It sounds like a huge, inefficient hassle of a program.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 11:39:24 Anna: I like your idea. Surely the dots can be connected in some creative, maybe unorthodox way to allow her to stay. A shame the board just didn't make some kind of quiet arrangement with her. * * * * * * * * * * * * Ingrid - 2005-03-15 11:43:06 http://www.aclumich.org/modules.php?name=AvantGo&file=print&sid=404 According to this link, which contains a March 9 letter from the ACLU to Michael Schneider, Board President of University Townhouses, the section 8 voucher process is simple, requiring five minutes to complete a "rental tenant approval form" for the Ann Arbor Housing Commission, which pays for the inspection. There is then one more ten minute form "Executive Housing Assistance Payment Contract" and the tenant's lease must also be amended. The Fair Housing Center already arranged the inspection by the Housing Commission. The apartment passed. If the link doesn't work, google fair housing center section 8 ann arbor.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-03-15 11:43:08 By my calculations, $455/608 other units, the additional cost to the community would be less than 75 cents/unit.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-03-15 11:58:08 I went to the ACLU website and read the letter they sent. I see no evidence of any administrative burden associated with accepting section 8 in this case. 1) The accept-one-accept-all rule was repealed in 1998, meaning that the cooperative does not have to accept all section-8 tennants just because it accepts her. 2) The inspection of her apartment, paid for by the Ann Arbor Housing Authority, has already *passed* , meaning no costly changes to get it up to the necessary standard. 3) The ACLU asserts that all that is left is to fill out one form. Period. Can anyone show how the ACLU is distorted or just plain wrong? <* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-15 12:00:09 We'll move into our tents or sleep in the barn before she and the boys have to move to Mad Max Manor.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 12:17:22 Good Lord, what a picture! Horrible. What a pit. Thank you for posting that, Raymond. Phew.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 12:23:01 Ingrid: Thank you for finding the link to the ACLU letter. It seems to me the cooperative is playing with legal fire by refusing to accept the voucher: "In spite of the [federally-mandated?]legal obligations to accept the voucher as an accommodation of Ms. Barhyte�s disability, the Cooperative Board of Directors voted to reject her section 8 voucher in December, 2004."* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 12:29:43 Anna: Yet another informative comment. If the take-one-take-all rule was repealed...then *why* is the development being so obstinate, for Heaven's sake? * * * * * * * * * * * * h. pylori - 2005-03-15 19:05:35 YD knows what he is talking about; he is immersed in Section 8 properties and paperwork daily. Just because the ACLU says it is an easy process does not make it so.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 19:08:08 I believe you. You certainly sound as though you are speaking as someone who's very familiar with the whole process. On the other hand, it sounds as though in this case they've taken care of at least some of the steps already (inspection, &c.).* * * * * * * * * * * * Erin - 2005-03-15 20:41:17 Not to be so overly cynical... are YD/Carpe Carp and h.pylori associated with the University Townhouse Coop?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 21:17:07 No, those gentlemen are longtime commentors. To the best of my knowledge they have no affiliation with UTC. I found their comments today regarding the Section 8 details informative and interesting--I hadn't known about any of that, as my initial post clearly shows. * * * * * * * * * * * * h. pylori - 2005-03-15 22:12:11 I have nothing to do with University Townhouse and I sincerely hope that she gets to stay in her home in this terrible stage in her life. I was merely pointing out that my friend YD (also unaffiliated with UTC) has real, practical experience with the section 8 process and it is a typical federal government morass.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-15 22:40:54 I too fervently hope that a quick, humane solution to this mess may be found for this lady--this is the last thing she needs to have to deal with at this juncture. If nothing else the story did illustrate why it's time to write another small yet periodic check to the ACLU.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 07:12:07 ...tick-tick-tick...the five year survival rate for Stage IV breast cancer is thought to be 18%...tick-tick-tick...* * * * * * * * * * * * Ypsidweller - 2005-03-16 08:49:24 I have no real world experience with section 8. I am a plumber. I pull GI Joes out of toilets I like my job. I enjoy pontificating on all sorts of subjects. I am associated with no one else but myself.* * * * * * * * * * * * Pluck the carp - 2005-03-16 08:57:01 A learner with the simplest, a teacher of the thoughtfullest; A novice beginning, yet experient of myriads of seasons; Of every hue and caste am I, of every rank and religion; A farmer, mechanic, artist, gentleman, sailor, quaker; A prisoner, fancy-man, rowdy, lawyer, physician, priest. 340 I resist anything better than my own diversity; I breathe the air, but leave plenty after me, And am not stuck up, and am in my place. (The moth and the fish-eggs are in their place; The suns I see, and the suns I cannot see, are in their place; The palpable is in its place, and the impalpable is in its place.) * * * * * * * * * * * * Ingrid - 2005-03-16 08:59:14 The Fair Housing Center is a very worthwhile organization as well as the ACLU. I wonder if some of the difference between what YD has heard about the Section 8 process and how the ACLU/Fair Housing characterize it concerns the upkeep of the properties involved. It used to be that the University Townhouses were kept up pretty well by both residents and staff. I don't know if this is still the case. If there were properties that were not kept up as well, maybe the Section 8 process would be more involved. This is not written to cast aspersions on any properties that YD might be involved with; I just wonder if this explains the discrepancy.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 08:59:30 Raymond: I think (and hope) we'll see some letters on this story in the Free Press. * * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 08:59:50 My experience with Section 8 was the part where the employer has to fill out forms. The employee responsible for doing it left the forms out in a public space. The person-subject of the forms saw them and threw a fit. Two females went after each other in a loud, hysterical forum. I expressed support for the subject person's right to privacy. The power structure which despised the poor and blamed them completely for their plight had me out of a job within a year. Now I am poor too, so the powers despise me, too. As to what I know about cancer, well...nevermind.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 09:15:30 Pluck the carp: [carpere="to pluck"] thanks to you I revisited that poem, not having read it in awhile.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 09:19:16 Raymond: Section 8 sounds like an invasive, potentially humiliating process to drag through. As far as I'm concerned, one's private life isn't any business of an employer. Sounds like there are lots of hoops to jump through.* * * * * * * * * * * * Cuff - 2005-03-16 09:32:40 If you want government assistance you relinquish any and all privacy rights. Pretty much everyone you have dealings with will know you're poor. And as to why the complex may not want section 8. I can think of many, but how many of you in privately run businesses would want the Federal Government coming in and takin over certain aspects of your business?* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 09:40:37 I worked in a tax supported environment. Social Security numbers, driving license numbers, home address information, (bank account information in the case of the Section 8 example), everything, and anything was scattered around unsecured, poor or not, for any passer-by to see. How many of us anywhere would want free access to how shitty our finances are and what our pitiful bank account numbers are?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 09:53:40 OK, I decided to write my own letter to the editor. The address is [email protected] and for what it's worth they have guidelines here, on the left. Dear Editor: In reference to Cecil Angel�s March 15 story, �Cancer patient has new battle�: Ann Arbor�s University Townhouses Cooperative board should be ashamed of itself. The board should immediately--today--resolve the ambiguous housing situation of cancer patient Laura Barhyte and her sons, either by accepting the Section 8 voucher she is offering or finding a creative solution. Instead, the board is dragging its feet and callously subjecting Ms. Barhyte to unnecessary stress and uncertainty during a time in her life already burdened with serious illness. Shame on the University Townhouses Cooperative board. Laura B[name &c. truncated here]* * * * * * * * * * * * Fred Bear - 2005-03-16 09:56:08 And all those files are supposed to be guarded like Fort Knox. However, the govment is not the smoothest running machine as you may be able to imagine. And all those files must be stored for eons, costing quite a bit for the space and environmental control. Of course space is limited so file storage occurs in the weirdest of places. After awhile you don't give a dam about poor BillyBob and how he don't (didn't) make shit 20 years ago. He's just a yellowy piece of paper. One of thousands in torn boxes ripping apart. The slow smokless burn of decay. * * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 10:06:56 For some highly sensitive work-related, not employee record, material, I got a mobile shredder for supervised destruction of documents. And it doesn't matter what our circumstances are in reality, the office mafia will stab us in the back with every malicious shard of gossip or innuendo that can be dug up or invented. I really value my privacy. That's why I plaster everything all over the internet and in the newspapers. And drink beer in the front yard. Hell, I can stand up for, what, 1/2 hour at a time?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 10:13:36 It sounds hugely cumbersome--that yellowed piece of paper from Billybob is a vivid detail. It took me a while to remember where I'd previously heard that "slow smokeless burning of decay"--nice allusion, Fred Bear.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 10:26:29 I gave some money to the ACLU once. Some of those kids in Ann Arbor who busted windows and ripped down fences when the Nazis were in town accosted me at the Art Fair to sign a petition so they wouldn't be prosecuted for their vandalism. I refused and they called me a few names. In the interests of supporting variant dialogue, I joined ACLU. Well, they spelled my name wrong, so I could tell how it happened that I got on the mailing list for every kind of flat out liberal outfit in the country. My mail box was stuffed with pleas and demands. It took years to get off those lists.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 10:29:37 I wouldn't have any patience with rude vandals, and I wouldn't have signed that petition either. * * * * * * * * * * * * Al G. - 2005-03-16 10:32:13 America go fuck ourself wih your atom bomb. Your machinery is too much for me. * * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 10:41:05 We have some prints of Allen's and a painting that belonged to him. He and my former spouse were pals.* * * * * * * * * * * * Sunflower - 2005-03-16 10:50:30 I have $2500 for your old strophes, and will put down $500.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 10:53:34 Do I have to sell the art before I can get public assistance?* * * * * * * * * * * * S - 2005-03-16 10:56:19 Yes, assets all count. * * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 10:59:24 as much as my assets around I must be eligible* * * * * * * * * * * * Too Che - 2005-03-16 11:24:07 Yu sound like a perfect candidate. But goats and donkeys are not considered domestic companions. So you gotta give em to me.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 12:06:18 Raymond: "...I must be eligible"--I had to laugh; thank you.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 18:28:57 Letter to the Editor: The goats and donekys are hungry. Please bring over a bale of hay. And, wait! Bring dog, cat, and fish food also. Lots of it.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-16 18:30:55 P.S. Also goose and chicken food. Don't worry about the mice, coons, and possums. They feed on our boots, the wiring, and any fresh shoots of plants.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-16 20:00:20 Raymond: if you can breed a silent chicken I know where you could find a buyer. Just a word to the wise.* * * * * * * * * * * * Erin - 2005-03-17 20:27:58 I am making a mental note to never give my kids GI Joe dolls. But then, they'll find something else. I have a LOT of respect for plumbers. I have done enough minor plumbing (and other) repairs to have a great deal of respect for anyone who can view the system behind the walls.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-17 21:07:50 Same here. My dad is a printing press mechanic and I admire anyone who can fix and repair things with practical expertise.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-03-18 08:12:10 We're negotiating with a welfare mothers group to perform some mayhem in the gallery at Riverside in April. We need a toilet and some toys. Anyone got some to lend? Dunno how many times I've passed up toilets parked by the curb for pickers or trashers. They make nice planters.* * * * * * * * * * * * Ingrid - 2005-03-18 13:05:27 Raymond: I've got toys but no toilet(to lend). * * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: |