lynne - 2005-02-28 10:58:51
I think I have to disagree with you on this one. Most unleashed dogs are quite well behaved and a little running around at the park is good for them. Back in the day when I had a young dog and lived in an apartment, I dont know what I would have done if it werent for a regular group that met in the evenings at Riverside Park. My dog got to socialize a lot with other dogs and also got worn out playing with the other dogs. I went there every day for almost three years and there were seldom any incidents of dogs behaving badly and when there were, there was some interesting social pressure put on those dog's owners to control their dogs.
The problem isnt so much unleashed dogs but uncontrolled dogs. Of my three dogs, I will only allow one off leash because she is the only one who responds to voice commands. I also know that she will not bite anyone. Not every dog owner has the same sense of their dogs though and I admit that I stopped taking my dogs to Riverside Park because there were too many people walking Pit Bulls there. Even though they were usually on leash, I just dont trust that breed and I generally dont trust dog owners who seem to get a dog as some sort of macho accessory.
The solution to this whole 'dogs on leash / dogs not on leash' issue is to have some designated and fenced dog parks. Wouldnt it be nice if Ypsilanti had such a place? Then dogs can get all the benefits of socialization and running without bothering all the "non-dog" people. Another solution is one where the law isnt that dogs are required to be on a leash but are required to be "under control" with some very specific guidelines about what "under control" means. A leash is just one method of keeping a dog under control. I think the dog park solution is probably better from an enforcement point of view though.
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Lots of good points here. I have a mixed response.
It's definitely true that some running around off-leash is good for dogs. I sometimes take mine to a nearby church baseball field which is deserted 99% of the time, and is removed from any public area where she might bother people, to let her run around.
I have mixed feelings about dog parks. I think it's a bit excessive to devote public parkland to pet use. I've also seen designated dog parks become grassless, scratched-up poopy moonscapes due to overuse. On the other hand I know my dog would love to romp and play with other dogs, and I wish I could give her that opportunity.
Hm. I think the Riverside group sounds nice. But if, say, local dog owners were to plan an impromptu get-together for off-leash fun, what would be an isolated, fenced/boundaried, people-free spot?* * * * * * * * * * * * Dave D. - 2005-02-28 11:20:01
Even dogs that are well-behaved can be menacing to kids and others who are afraid/wary of dogs, so they really should be leashed I was bit badly when I was 5, and have been a bit tentative around dogs ever since. I wouldn't have a problem with regulated and fenced off areas for dogs, but it's a bit much at Riverside, where I'm leery of jogging thru the park nowadays. Anyway, my $.02. * * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-02-28 11:25:55
In 1909, among other times, Ypsi experienced rabies outbreaks. Loose dogs were shot on sight. When licensing laws came along (30s?) people were slow to sign up. Which reminds me, we forgot to renew our mutt's tags.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 11:32:30
I agree with you, Dave D. Even the best trained dog can blow a fuse on occasion, and attack/bite/make woozy with fetid dog-breath. Seriously, I am very aware that there are plenty of folks out there who have zero interest in meeting my sweetie Clover, no matter how nice, and I try to keep her out of people's way (and *always* on a less-than-six-foot-long leash, per Ypsi law) in public, on sidewalks, &c.
I always want to meet every dog I run into, and pet it, &c., but not everyone does.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 11:36:22
Raymond: Rabies outbreaks? My goodness,--I'll have to check for stories in the microfilm; thanks for the tip, Raymond. Do you know any more about it? Was anyone killed? What led to shooting loose dogs? One is reminded of that scary mad-dog scene in To Kill a Mockingbird.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 11:48:10
Raymond: I think dog and bike licenses are among the most widely ignored laws in existance. I personally think it's just a bit intrusive into one's personal life, on the government's part, to have to register--and pay for--such small bits of one's life. I have a strong sense of privacy and don't like it intruded on or being noted down by some clerk somewhere. It's nobody's business.
Though I find the nitpicky government requirements irritating, I find the social requirement binding. So whereas I've never registered any of my 5 bikes and have also forgotten (in my case "forgotten") to re-up my dog, I'd never dream of letting her bug someone in public. At any rate.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-02-28 11:59:55
Dog licenses help to insure that dogs are immunized against rabies. Bicycle licenses help in the campaign for bike paths.
I don't recall reports of many dog bites in old papers. 1909 was a time of general hysteria. Not only were authorities out to get mad dogs, prohibitionists were fighting to ban alchoholic beverages, and theatrical troupes were staging "Doomsday" plays at the Opera House.
If you're in Detroit off Grand River near Warren, you might want to look around and beware before getting out of your car.* * * * * * * * * * * * lynne - 2005-02-28 12:00:28
what is funny is that when I first started going to Riverside Park with the dog group, the only people in the park were the dog people and folks smoking crack and drinking beer. We used to call it 40oz park because of all the broken beer bottles.
Eventually, people started feeling safe because there was always a group of dog people at the park. You could count on us. We were there every night at 6 or so. I always felt safe going down the park even with all the drug use going on in the parking lot because I knew the dog folks would watch my back.
It was kind of funny to watch the park change. I dont know if more people started going to the park because of the dog people or if it was just due to changes in the surrounding neighborhoods. I did notice that the drug use all but stopped after a while and then folks started using the park more. Sometimes they would complain about the dogs off-leash and I know that I wasnt the only person to long for the days when it was just the dog people and the crack heads because the crack heads never complained about the dogs. *shrug* I guess that is what happens when a city gentrifies and as a home owner who has made out, I can hardly complain.
As for dedicating park land to pet use, I think I see it differently. Each individual citizen of a city pays taxes for all the parks and such. A dog park isnt park land dedicated to *pets*, it is park land dedicated to pet owners. It is the same as having baseball diamonds in parks. I dont play baseball so those dont benefit me. Not everyone has pets, it is true. Heck, not everyone has kids so why bother with swing sets? Park use doesnt have to be for everyone all the time.
Dog parks do have issues. I dont deny that. Often they do end up turning into grassless scratched up poopy moonscapes due to overuse. But I have been to some very well managed dog parks in NYC, California, and Seattle. I know it can be done and done well. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 12:04:22
Two good points, Raymond. My (shelter mutt) was luckily immu'd against rabies as part of the adoption requirements (at which time she did get official tags, too, which I've lost long ago).
You're right about the bike-path campaign. I hadn't thought about that angle. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 12:21:02
Raymond: 1909 sounds like a time of social unrest. I'll have to read about it in the old papers. Incidentally, I most definitely would not want to run into that Detroit hound. I've heard there are packs of feral dogs in certain areas of Detroit.
This Nat'l Geo story says, "In Detroit, packs of free-roaming dogs have posed such a danger that a postal service spokesman said they considered stopping mail delivery to some areas last year because carriers were "constantly being bitten" or injured eluding vicious animals."* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 12:26:07
Lynne: some good points. Also, the recent history of Riverside Park is interesting and at last answered the question of why the driveway off Cross is always, always locked, with no car access allowed.
I bet it was indeed the dog people that helped other residents feel it was OK to start re-using the park more. I also imagine that with more people using the park more the drug people felt it best to move on to a quieter spot.
You are right; with proper management, a dog park doesn't have to necessarily turn into a scarred, ripped-up dirt-yard. Also, your point about the baseball diamond is well taken and makes sense.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-02-28 12:34:21
When those dogs started yapping at us we heard a human voice holler at them to be quiet. The dogs were romping with an old shoe. I fumbled too much trying to get my Leica with a telephoto (ending up dumping the camera bag) and the dogs spotted us. They were protecting their turf.
I saw a pack of loose dogs around I-94 and the Lodge investigating something on a littered embankment in the midst of multi-leveled concrete. There were at least four dogs, perhaps more. Looked wild.
Feral canines roamed the flats of Cleveland in the 60s and 70s when I was around there. It was in the sixties that the Cuyahoga River caught fire. Interesting times. Now the flats are civilized.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 12:40:18
Yikes. I wouldn't want to meet these urban wolfpacks.
If I did meet a wild dog, I think that following the advice here would be a bad idea. Be a tree? Imitate a log? I don't think that would work. Dogs are all about dominance--I think you'd have better luck the more commanding and fearsome you could be. Not passive. The backpack advice is useful, though.* * * * * * * * * * * * lynne - 2005-02-28 12:42:48
Heh. I guess this is still an issue I have some passionate feelings about even though these days my "young" dog is nearly a decade old and I have a very large fenced yard where I throw the ball for her. All of our walks these days are on-leash (although I confess that sometimes late at night when no one is looking I let the young one run around at Prospect Park).
The truth is that if there were a dog park in Ypsilanti, I probably wouldnt use it. But I guess I still think it is a good idea. It seems to me that building a dog park and spending the money to do it well is just the kind of thing that would make Ypsilanti an actual "cool city" to live in. Let's face it. The kind of folks who would use a dog park are the kind of folks who live in apartments or (dare I say) townhouses who don't have yards. These are the kind of folks who are young and hip and blah blah blah (insert "cool city" speak here).
There are certain things that make a city a nice place to live. Things like good public transportation, recreation opportunities, clean streets, low crime, trees, etc. I think that dog parks fall into the "recreation" catagory quite nicely. These kinds of things make cities nicer even if one doesnt personally use them all the time. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 12:50:29
Lynne: Now, there's a thoughtful comment. Indeed--dog-park users are probably likely people without yards (apartment/condo/loft dwellers) who probably tend to pamper their pet (read: lots of disposable income).
I think you might be changing my mind on the dog-park issue.
Incidentally, the Canine Social Club is an Ann Arbor group seeking to create an Ann Arbor dogpark.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 12:58:50
It occurs to me that the ideal spot for a dogpark would be the northernmost bit of the Water Street site. All those (eventual) apartment people could let their dogs romp around there. Most of it is bounded by the Huron, so dogs could cool off--and damage the riverbank, I note in passing--and it would be a trendy, cool-sounding thing to advertise to eventual Water Street residents.* * * * * * * * * * * * lynne - 2005-02-28 13:31:53
Yes, I am familiar with Canine Social Club. I fear they are fighting a losing battle. Ann Arbor people just dont seem to want dog parks. Which is, in my mind, another reason why Ypsilanti might want to consider it. I mean, it is something that a nice young hip dog owner with lots of disposable income might consider when deciding where to live. I think the northernmost bit of the Water Street site would be an excellent place for a dog park as would Waterworks Park (a park that as far as I can tell doesnt get used for much at the moment) which is adjacent to the Water Street project. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 13:42:11
Waterworks Park is even better, by virtue of being a bit "removed" from the northern, parklike space. You are right, it seems underused. Doesn't it also have a bad rep? Maybe changing it to a dogpark might kill two birds with one stone.
I think you have all the makings for a good letter to the Courier editor here, if you ask me, Lynne. I think you have a really good idea here.
The best park is that I think a dogpark would take a minimal investment, compared to other "cool-cities" projects. Yet it has high trendiness and visibility and would make Ypsi look genuinely hip, I think.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 13:52:29
Waterworks Park is even better, by virtue of being a bit "removed" from the northern, parklike space. You are right, it seems underused. Doesn't it also have a bad rep? Maybe changing it to a dogpark might kill two birds with one stone.
I think you have all the makings for a good letter to the Courier editor here, if you ask me, Lynne. I think you have a really good idea here.
The best part is that I think a dogpark would take a minimal investment, compared to other "cool-cities" projects. Yet it has high trendiness and visibility and would make Ypsi look genuinely hip, I think.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-02-28 14:00:49
Men in the 18-30 yr. range are much more dangerous than dogs. Maybe we should require them to be tethered.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 14:23:53
I don't doubt that young men are statistically more dangerous. I thought about it for a minute, and realized that the difference is that the dog is the property of its owner; the owner is responsible for it, as he would be for a runaway lawnmower or ice on his sidewalk. In comparison, there's no means of controlling a stranger, who is an independent agent.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-02-28 15:30:11
There are plenty of ways that parents could, but don't, control their children. Personally, I find kids to be more obnoxious than dogs a lot of the time, and when one is waiting tables and carrying trays of hot food and kids are racing around, they are more dangerous than dogs. Yet, I still don't think they should be on leashes -- just under voice control.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 15:34:51
I agree with that sentiment. Dogs are generally inoffensive and at worst a bit drooly (St. Bernards expecially). * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 16:22:38
Cat park.
� * * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-02-28 16:39:31
I saw either bobcat tracks or mountain lion tracks in the snow while on a hike on Sat. It was wild! It followed our footprints for around two miles. Never saw the cat. Glad, because I hear that they can attack dogs.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 16:42:28
Wow--cool! Did it really track you for 2 miles? I mean, did it intentionally follow you, or just walk on the same path because there's nowhere else to walk?
Panthers are making a comeback in the upper Lower Michigan they say. Pretty cool.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-02-28 18:50:40
...so, will there be a lawsuit? 1-800-CALL-LAW? was skin broken? will there be scars? was a dog owner present? did a confrontation ensue? do the police know about it? was the dog captured, its head cut off, and a rabies test done? will a series of shots be needed? is everything okay???* * * * * * * * * * * * lynne - 2005-02-28 19:55:54
At your suggestion, I have now written my first ever letter to the editor. :) * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-02-28 21:17:42
Raymond: No, this gentleman is a peaceable soul who wouldn't dream of filing a lawsuit. He encountered the owner and reported the bite, and the very apologetic owner gave him her phone number and said please call if there's any problem. Cold comfort if you're fading away with the Dogbite Palsy.
This gentleman did report a spell of howling at the moon for an hour last night, "but no other problems."
Lynne: wow! That's great! I'm glad you did so and will look for it come Thursday--I do hope they print it! Your "cool cities=dogpark" idea was such an outstanding one--I hope it reaches some Cool Cities planning-group ears. Now I can't wait to read it!* * * * * * * * * * * * (deserves reiteration) - 2005-02-28 21:35:46
kudos to Lynne!* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-03-01 09:22:51
It looked like the bobcat/mountain lion intentionally followed our footprints because we were on an old defunct road which was wide -- plus the road is surrounded by woods! I wondered if it was attracted by the scent of my dog. I reported the whole thing to the DEP -- I hope that they got a chance to go check out the tracks, because it's snowing again now so they'll be covered. I did a little searching and there have been some mountain lion sightings around 50 miles northwest of here, but the park I was in, although large and unpeopled, is right near an urban center. It would be very wild if, within sight of my kitchen window, there were mountain lions roaming on top of the ridge.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-03-01 11:10:41
That's really interesting. It would be fantastic to have mountain lions so close by, just in my opinion. The dog-scent theory sounds reasonable. I appreciate my little Ypsi bunny visitor, but I'm afraid that doesn't hold a candle to a Mountain Lion.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-03-01 13:11:27
Unless they get hungry and start attacking mountain bikers, that might put a damper on things. But I agree; I find it sad that I find it so astonishing that there might be wildlife in one of our 1000-acre state parks. I've read that these sorts of big cats are attracted by the overabundance of deer. Since the land is posted (no hunting), there _are_ a lot of deer in the park. In fact, it was deer tracks that made us pay attention to the tracks to begin with.* * * * * * * * * * * * Ed - 2005-09-06 11:50:24
Leash laws are needed for more than just to keep dogs away from strangers who don't appreciate them. 1.Dogs darting in front of cars cause accidents. 2.Dogs using the "bathroom" on other's property cause feces to get tracked into homes,cars,etc. And create a nice food source for flies. 3.Strange dogs approuching small children and adults frighten them needlessly(children are generally bit in the face if the dog senses their fear). My neighbors two large dogs would come over in my yard, circle me menacingly,growling, and crap exclusively in MY yard until I took "shovel in hand" and delivered to "Ceasar what belonged to Ceasar." For Anna: men 18-30 DO have teathers - they're called women(just kidding there).* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: