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Comments:
raymond - 2005-01-17 10:43:25 I'm not sure if I believe all the PR about these being safer. You are right, drivers on both those roads are used to going fast. Seems pretty dicey to me. At least with a regular intersection there's a designated crossing period, when all you have to look out for is turning traffic. * * * * * * * * * * * * lynne - 2005-01-17 14:25:39 I have to confess that I have never liked those roundabout things. They make me nervous and I never feel that they are safer. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 14:30:03 They make me a tad antsy, too. Still think they're more dangerous for peds/bikers.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:33:13 This must be a regional thing. They are very common in coastal New England (esp. MA, ME and NH) and I think they're great. There's a huge one in New Hampshire that feeds people onto several different highways, and it works just fine. The only problem is when you encounter folks with out-of-state license plates who don't know the rules (the rules: People already on the traffic circle have the right of way; people waiting on your right have the right of way)* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:35:29 Though, I agree... they are not well-suited to pedestrians without some sort of modification (e.g. footbridge over it or something). Since bikes have to follow the rules of the road, I don't know why these would be harder to deal with than traffic lights, but I haven't tried it, so I don't know that from experience.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 14:36:54 I think it's a very regional thing and that they're just emerging in this area. Hmm, concerning that second rule, I thought the traffic in the circle had the right of way. I'm never going to remember how to do this, I can see.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:37:35 A pedestrian circle in the diag might help things move along in between classes.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 14:38:36 As far as bikes, it seems you'd have to guess if an oncoming car were going to turn into the lane you were trying to cross, since there's no lights and lots of people never use their turn signal [grumble].* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:40:09 (you are right -- the traffic in the circle has the right of way; maybe I wrote it backward? After that, the way you decide who enters first is the car to the right if you're both sitting there waiting. It makes sense if you think about it, since they're naturally in front of you, but sometimes discourteous drivers on the left barge in first, blocking the driver on the right from entering the circle).* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 14:40:59 I have to smile at the idea of a pedestrian circle in the Diag and people swirling around it.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:42:20 I guess I can see how it would be hard for bikes together with cars since you're going different speeds. People in New England would know to give you the right of way when crossing lanes, but people in Michigan might not...* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 14:42:36 Oh, so it's a 2-lane road heading into the ring area? Yikes. Even scarier.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:45:43 no no... I'm botching this. There are different entry points to the circle. Let's say there's one for every position on the clock. If you're sitting at 6:00, the person at 3:00 should enter first, because if you enter first, the person at 3:00 has a hard time getting on (because your car is in the way).* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 14:48:01 Oh. Hm. Well, I think I'll just skirt this intersection from here on out. This all sounds complicated and tricky.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:50:01 The thing I like about traffic circles is that they are eco-friendly because they don't require any sort of electricity, and since people don't always have to brake, they cause people to use a tiny bit less gas (at the huge one in New Hampshire, I'll bet it ads up when you look at all the trucks that save diesel, etc.), plus, there's less emission at the circle than at a traffic light because you don't get long lines of cars backed up waiting (really, I don't own stock in a traffic circle design firm).* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2005-01-17 14:51:21 On bike I might avoid it too -- well, I'd try it a few times, first maybe.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 14:54:02 Oh, I forgot the no-electricity thing--OK, that in and of itself changes the whole picture. You are right. That's indeed very eco-friendly--well, I can put up with crossing a lane on a traffic circle I suppose.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 15:06:49 (I have to say I never thought I'd be caught up in a lively chat about...traffic roundabouts). :)* * * * * * * * * * * * LF - 2005-01-17 15:14:33 I've gone through that intersection 100's of times over the years and seen all kinds of aberrant driver behavior. During work today, I drove through said intersection twice, once heading East and once heading West. The first time was no problem. The second time, heading West, the person in front of me wanted to turn South on Superior Rd. They got confused, panicked, and nearly hit someone in the opposite lane head on. Of course, they came back into the lane they left and nearly hit me. The way traffic is supposed to flow through that intersection is apparently not intuitive for a lot of drivers. I don't know if slowing traffic to 15 mph and routing it through a roundabout is a valid solution though. I suppose a traffic light would be even worse, congestion-wise. As for bicycle traffic in a roundabout, it seems that 1.5 tons piloted by an anxious primate equals disaster for the anxious primate riding 1/100th of a ton.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-17 15:18:09 It does indeed. Sounds from your experience today that as it stands that is a dangerous intersection.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-01-17 17:57:08 I was headed north up Superior one day when I encountered a deputy blocking the road. Fire trucks, rescue vans, and police cars were flashing lights all over the place. I could see a car off the road which apparently had wanted to go to Ann Arbor but forgot to follow the pavement and drove straight into the trees. A friend of ours was a Superior firefighter and I had been needing to speak with him. I got out of the truck and asked the deputy if Bob was around. "Yeah," he said, "but he's kinda busy." I reassured the deputy that it was business and walked over to the smoking car where Bob had pried open the hood so he could cut the battery cables in hopes to prevent sparks for explosion. Bob described the chest injuries of the driver who forgot to follow the road. Sounded uncomfortable. We transacted our business. I turned around, and went back to Huron River Drive. Bob told me how many wrecks had been there in the past few months, but I forget. It was a lot. I suppose if the county spends many millions they can figure out a way that drivers can continue to be as stupid as they want to be while avoiding harm. A traffic crash researcher I had the misfortune to have to deal with daily some years ago drove off the road up and around the curve on Geddes one snowy day. "The speed limit is too fast there," he complained. "45 is just too fast." I replied that a) drivers should conform their behavior to conditions, not a posted number, and that b) the speed limit was 35. He didn't believe me, but he did look the next time he went there and even admitted to me that he was wrong. Science would be a lot better without some of the scientists.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-18 08:22:39 That Geddes curve is a tad scary. On a bike, at least. I tried it one day, I think because Ypsidweller said he went that way via bike, but I found lots of blind corners and .05 inches of shoulder to bike on, and gravelly at that. And people do drive WAY too fast there. Just in my opinion.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2005-01-18 11:48:53 One morning on the way to work some years ago I saw a couple of cars stopped at that curve. I looked into the ravine on the north side of the road and saw a car there. I stopped to see what was up. Turned out a car headed east had hit the bump in the pavement where different pavings join and taken flight. The car had been a hardtop. The impact with trees ripped the roof off. The driver was flattened messily against the steering wheel and dashboard. One passenger was hanging in the bushes about six feet off the ground, arms and legs spread wide apart as if in flight still. Another passenger had gone headfirst under the dash on the right front. The previous stoppers said all were dead. I went down to have a look. The driver and the one in the tree showed unsurvivable injuries. The legs of the guy under the dash started to twitch. One of the previous stoppers had a blanket which she was taking back to her car. I hollered for her to bring it back, a person was alive. I chatted with him while we waited for help. Someone had a cell phone and had called 9-1-1. Turns out the three boys had been in Ann Arbor boozing it up. They crashed some time around midnight, as I recall. Spent the night down there, two dead and one very cold. He couldn't get out because he was stuck and his arms were broken. The firetrucks arrived and my friend Bob helped me climb up to the road. While talking with the live guy I noticed that an open bottle of Bud in the back seat had survived. Didn't spill a drop.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2005-01-18 11:55:44 Good heavens, what a story. You may well have saved his life by noticing the twitching. Horrific.* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: |