Eric * - 2004-12-04 16:30:54
If the cemetery is on the National Register, they can get federal funds to make improvements to the chapel. Where'd you hear this anyway? I was talking to Denis a couple days ago and he was still working on it.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Yes, has it not been quite some time now? Over a year I believe. I had no idea the process is so laborious and takes so long--I can't see why it would.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-04 16:36:41
I don't get your response. When did you hear this fell through?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-04 16:37:45
"Trustworthy sources." Both of whom are ticked off, neither of whom I'll name.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-04 16:38:36
I'm trying to find out when you heard the rumor.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-04 16:40:15
Your missile of inquiry cannot penetrate my protective shield of anonymity. Just trust me. I wouldn't say it if it weren't from the equine mouth. The Courier should consider digging into why the holdup in getting approval.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-04 16:43:03
I spoke to Denis five days ago. Denis is the one leading this. Have you heard this rumor since I spoke to him? I don't care where you heard your rumor. All I am asking is how old your rumor is.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-04 16:44:47
Well, Eric *, it sounds as though you are in a better position than me to clear this whole thing up. Did Denis indicate what the delay was? Do the feds have a backlog of applications?* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-04 16:48:14
I doesn't sound like we are on the same wavelength. Denis told me what he was doing and didn't mention any delays. All I wanted to know was whether your rumor was more recent information that I hadn't heard, or whether your rumor is old information. That's all. Quite simple really.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-04 16:52:35
No delays? Just out of curiosity, hasn't he been working on this for over a year now? I don't know the application process but it must be incredibly in-depth, a titanic project.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-04 16:56:23
I don't know how long he's been doing this. We were just looking at some of his aerial maps and talking about how big the site would be. From what I understand, he doesn't even have all of the information yet. That's pretty much all I know, but I hadn't heard that it had fallen through (as it would have had to have happened some time this week). That's all.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-04 17:05:57
well, at least it looks like the ypsilanti "Rumor Mill" hasn't been demolished.
Seriously- i realize that apparently there's something related to national security involved here, that you can't openly discuss, but my curiousity is aroused. Without naming dates or names, might you give the INITIALS of the agency responsible (if any), and a minor clarification as to whether this is a case of someone not filling out some form by a certain deadline, or was it a lack of funds, or some other scenario? * * * * * * * * * * * *
Eric * - 2004-12-04 17:18:29I haven't heard of this falling through. I understand this to be the project of a local architect. He's a member of the Heritage Foundation, but this isn't their project. He's been working with Nathan from the city to get maps, etc., but it's not their project either. Just as a couple people worked to save the Towner House, I understand this to be the crusade of a few random individuals. I can't comment on your questions because they don't fit what I've heard.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-12-04 18:42:32
Whether or not it gets on the Register, the last coupla times I've been up there, the most recent maybe two weeks ago, my mortality was aroused by heavy truck tire tracks running over graves way up at the north end where fill is dumped to expand the dry burying space.
"They're moving mother's grave to build a graveyard...."
It's a purty spot and there's some wayback stones, but I'll opt for the crematory on E. Michigan and the roots of the rosebush.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-04 20:42:33
raymond- I know the exact spot you're referring to, where about ten stones have fallen and are flattened down into the ground. I've always been curious why that was allowed to fall into disrepair when most of the cemetery is fairly well kept (I think the cemetery map I have puts those near the 'colored section', if that explains anything).
I also love the several poorly hidden areas where they discard decorations and fill dirt. It was very bizarre to find the secret cemetery of cemetery decor.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-12-04 22:24:07"The secret cemetery of cemetery decor"--OK, I know where I'm going next Sunday. I have to check out those fallen stones. By the way Brett we revisited Stony Creek cemetery and I saw the Webster stone, visible from the parking lot. The poem is badly corroded; regrettably I couldn't read it. But I'm indebted to you for your kind tip about this Gold Rush Grave.
If anyone cares, an adventurous friend reports that the number of bodies still left in Prospect Park is.........14. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-04 22:59:54
Eric *, I understand this project to be the crusade of one individual who has successfully alienated everyone else originally helping and has thus been left to his own devices. Upshot: no fed funds for the chapel. * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-05 10:50:39
as raymond said, they're working on the debris area currently so I'm sure it looks different now, than it did in 2002 when i took this photo:
(There is a second, separate area for discarded items, in the woods, but you'll have to find that one yourself).* * * * * * * * * * * *
Eric * - 2004-12-05 11:03:26I'm more confused than ever. Has this project fallen through as you said previously? Or is it now a one-man crusade?* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-05 11:04:05
on a much more serious note, this is the area raymond also mentioned with the fallen stones that have been driven over by trucks:
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this is from a north carolina site, but it explains the process by which a property is entered into the national register, if anyone's interested.
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us/how.htm* * * * * * * * * * * *
raymond - 2004-12-05 16:59:01Nobody can prove it, but I picked up some used condoms along with discarded underwear along the car-path at the northwest corner of the cemetery, by the woods. Oh, yes, I use code-blue gloves and keep items in evidence kits. Did I deprive the Historical Museum (Society, or whatever...) of artifacts? Oh well.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-05 23:26:07
so long as you photographed their original positions and are storing them in archival conditions, i think it should be okay. When the historical re-enactment is done they'll use reproductions anyway, most likely.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-06 09:23:17
Brett: thank you for those fabulous photos. I feel bad that the fallen stones are being driven over! As soon as I saw the fallen stones I knew the area in Highland that you were referring to. Also, thank you for the cemetery-decor photo--yuck, what a mess. I'll have to see if I can find the mystery woods site.
Thank you also for the link to the application process for historic-site designation.
Raymond's historical find and Brett's response: I had to laugh.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-06 09:24:50
Eric *: Both. A one-man crusade that has fallen through, based on grapevine chatter. I doubt it'll ever happen. Someone else should take over the project.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-06 10:50:26
Sounds like the perfect project for Group X.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-06 10:51:58
Indeed. Except that I suspect the project cannot be wrested from its current owner without much uproar.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-06 10:58:38
But if it's fallen through, why do you need him?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-06 11:02:18
It would be confusing to the national-registry people to get two whole sets of application papers. They would have no idea who is really in charge, and whom to reply to and so forth, and that would likely sabotage any chance to get the $ for the chapel. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-06 11:04:05
But I still think it'd be interesting for the Courier to do an update on the whole thing, with comparisons to similar projects and how long they took.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-06 11:13:32
I'm super-dense today. If it's fallen through, why would anyone submit an application? The application would go to Lansing for review before ever going to the feds. The review process is very short. If no one has submitted an application, it would be all about submitting first. It sounds like a no-brainer.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-06 11:14:22
I'm super-dense today. If it's fallen through, why would anyone submit an application? The application would go to Lansing for review before ever going to the feds. The review process is very short. If no one has submitted an application, it would be all about submitting first. It sounds like a no-brainer.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-12-06 11:15:39
That you are encouraging me to do so is a bit surprising, considering that the gentleman in question is apparently a friend of yours, supposedly.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-12-06 11:25:39
As far as I'm concerned, he's a great guy and would talk at length about this if you asked him. I also think your information is wrong and still can't figure out how this could have fallen through if someone is actively working on the applicaiton process. Regardless, this isn't even about working with him. If this project interests you, you can work on it independently of him. I thought that was the whole point of Group X. Supposedly.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-06 12:26:19
Myself, i'm curious as to how the fellow was arguing that the cemetery met the criteria for inclusion. The listing for standards (linked to from the above) mentions cemeteries on this line:
"a cemetery that derives its primary significance from graves of persons of transcendent importance, from age, from distinctive design features, or from association with historic events"
I think the 'distinctive design' angle might work, and you could run with that point and say it's indicative of early "Rural Cemetery" design (meaning the late 19th century movement for cities to have pseudo-rural, park-like burial sites), but some of the other arguments would be pretty hard to make at the national level, i think.
Eric*'s right about the applications, so long as one hasn't been submitted and officially declined by the SHPO. Group X, i think we need to realize, is currently still a figment of our imagination but this would certainly be a possibility of a project. If it were up to me to submit a report, though, and i had to choose one property (that hasn't already been demolished), i don't know if i'd pick Highland, just because it's still active, has an association, and supposedly all those new graves are being paid for- so they do have some cash for repairs, you would think.
One thing i learned from a contact at the state historic preservation office, incidentally, when i was first looking into the paper mill, was that even if something is on the national register it doesn't guarantee legally that a historic structure can't be demolished. The government hasn't gotten into historic preservation much beyond designating locations as 'important' and of course protecting (most) things in the boundaries of national parks.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-12-06 13:04:48That is a very informative post, Brett; thank you. I think your idea is a good one. There may be a "person of transcendent importance" or two in there, too (someone a non-Ypsilantian would view as important, that is). * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-06 13:42:55
I hate the ambiguous term 'transcendent', which is obviously so open to interpretation as to be worthless. It also sounds like they're expecting either Thoreau or Dickinson to be buried there.
Possibly the civil war 'colored' troops would be an angle to take.
I personally think the starkweather dog is the most 'transcendent' thing in the whole place, after raymond's rubber of course.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-12-06 13:49:46Yes, what is "transcendent"? I think your idea of the civil war troops is a very good one. There's lots of info online about MI men who served...all 90,000 of them if I remember the number right.
The starkweather dog? Is there really a dog buried at Highland? There's a huge pet cemetery just a couple miles north of Ypsi, incidentally.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-12-06 15:16:59
there's a pet cemetery IN ypsi, called whispering pines. it's across the street from highland.
the starkweather grave is just west-nw of the chapel. as i understood it mr. starkweather had a dog named 'watch', and after his and the dog's deaths mary had a little sculpture commissioned for the plot:
Whispering Pines:
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Wow. Just amazing. Thank you for your kindness in posting those amazing photos. The dog sculpture is very beautiful! Who knew that a dog was buried in Highland?! Really interesting. I like the understated way you photographed it, too: not bluntly straight-on as I would have done. Nice.
Whispering Pines: well, what do you know. Never knew it was there. Yet another of the many interesting places I want to visit. Thank you so much for clueing me in to such fascinating things, Brett.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-12-07 08:45:24
I looked at Whispering Pines cremation prices last summer. They seemed high. The prices made the human crematory nearby seem like a bargain.* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: