lynne - 2004-11-29 20:36:30
Yeah, I drove by those things about a week ago and thought that they sure looked boring. *yawn*
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Why would you call them cheap? Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you know much about construction. There's a reason no one uses balloon framing anymore.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-29 21:00:35
"K&E Construction workers, contracted by Edwards Communities, destroyed the decrepit paper plant in May. The company preserved the paper plant�s historic smokestack."
The plant wasn't decrepit, it wasn't destroyed by K&E (but rather by Homrich), and the smokestack is newer than many of the structures they demolished.
Is there a college newspaper in this country that doesn't seem like it's written by Junior High students?
The work is progressing fairly normally, with the west half going more slowly due to the 125,000 square foot "eyesore" they had to remove first. Wood framing has started going up in the last several days.
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brett - 2004-11-29 21:06:59as for whether Edwards Communites is cheap, they ARE- and by their own admission. The Ypsilanti City council asked if they could build taller structures to save more room for parking, and they refused because they didn't want to pay for steel supports.
I could add something about the fact that the existing mill already had steel supports, and was made primarily of brick, stone, and concrete, but I don't feel like beating a dead horse right now. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Eric * - 2004-11-29 21:21:57The residents of Ypsilanti only get behind something after it's too late. The Paper Mill, Water Street, etc. An old nieghbor of mine was organizing a protest of the destruction of the old EMU gymnasium.* * * * * * * * * * * * Brett - 2004-11-29 21:41:37
eric*- i agree, to a point.
When the mill was still standing i did what i could in so far as protesting, and i can assure you there was never anyone standing beside me. The question which i think needs answered is WHY they weren't interested, and the simple answer is that most people who think about history at all, know there are local historical societies and expect them to preserve the past for them. Just like I expect an ambulance to come if i have a heart attack, people assume "The History People" will take care of preserving things, as well as arranging the information into tasteful vignettes or short documentaries that distill the past into an easily consumable commodity. I feel very personally responsible for the mill's passing, because i was the only one who cared about it, and therefore it seems like it was my job to make others interested in it as well. Now that it's gone, I am still working on my project and will continue to do so, but I think that the important lesson to learn from the debacle isn't that "We should have saved that building", but rather "We should have known that the people we trust to preserve our past aren't doing their jobs". * * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-11-29 22:47:04Yes, as soon as I read Eric *'s last comment, I immediately thought of the effort Brett had made. Brett cannot be included in Eric *'s sweeping denunciation of Ypsilanti residents.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-29 22:52:47
On preview: Yes, Lynne, they are indeed boring in style. No distinction whatsoever.
Eric *: as for why I'd call them cheap, I was also at that meeting where they somewhat sheepishly explained that with wood framing they could only go up 3 stories. Also, I'm at a loss to know by what magical means you would have any knowledge of how much knowledge I might have of construction techniques. We'll file that comment of yours in the ad hominem department. * * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-29 23:34:00
Edwards Communities couldn't build higher than three stories because Ypsilanti doesn't allow residential buildings higher than three stories with wood framing. They sheepishly explained what? Are you suggesting the city doesn't understand it's own codes?
Your city council could have forced them to use steel framing and go higher than three stories, but they didn't. Your council had the ultimate approval of all plans.
You may not like the look of them, but that hardly makes them cheap.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 01:07:34
Eric *: What's with all this "your" business? Aren't you an Ypsilantian too? Aren't you one of the apathetic Ypsilantian souls who did nothing to save the paper mill? Or are you lecturing us from on high?
I have yet to hear an answer as to why you, who know nothing of my background or experiences, dreamily imagined that I know nothing about construction techniques. Could it be because I am not burdened with the dangling organ, with its mystical intrinsic power to impart construction-technique (and sports trivia) knowledge to its somewhat overly proud possessors? In which case you're just plain sexist. I'd invite you to examine the grape arbor I built in my backyard, a miracle of clever and amazingly sturdy construction technique. Feh.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 08:13:32
Why do you have to get so carried away sometimes? You didn't know about the code did you? Of course not, otherwise you wouldn't have lectured about Edwards Communities not building higher than three stories with wood framing. In addition, I'm sure given your construction knowledge you know that steel framing is on average 75% more expensive than wood. A one million dollar project would have cost a developer closer to two million with steel framing. That kind of increase would have likely killed any deal and the city's hopes of getting that property back on the tax rolls.
Too many people (I don't dare include you) think that because something can be built quickly then it is cheap. Most of the construction techniques from the turn of the century aren't used anymore for a reason.* * * * * * * * * * * * Ypsidweller - 2004-11-30 08:35:28
When I drove by this morning I imagined the first greasy ass stove fire on the third floor. There were no fire walls presently there now that most of the framing is up. Yep, It will be fune to watch the glow twoo years from now in Depot Town when the flames go from stove-to-vent-tube-to-attic. The white sticks aren't sticks. They are PVC drain tubes i the ground. The footings are done and they have started framing west of LeForge.* * * * * * * * * * * * YD - 2004-11-30 08:59:49
I am personally not interested with saving structures anymore due to my past experiences trying. I tried to save the High School gym from being torn down. Getting personally behind something and investing emotion only to be laughed at or ignored blooms enormous feelings of hypocracy. Trying to change the course of events in history based on emotions is like trying to stop the Huron's flow with a dixie cup.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 09:26:06
Eric *, I didn't actually say I was a big expert--I'm not. I just objected to your assumption that I was ignorant of something; you had no reason to think so. Enough already.
Ypsidweller, thanks for the PVC info. I saw the framing going on on the west side this a.m. What is a firewall and what would it look like?
I'm still not thrilled by the proximity of a 186-unit apartment building being located smack next to an unshielded railroad track. Most students are responsible but there's that beer hut across the road, and...there will be parties, and--I just worry. Asking for trouble if you ask me.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 09:37:57
It will be a blast to set shit on the tracks, like microwaves and garbage cans. And sit on your balcony and watch the trains smash shit.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 09:42:35
you are right, yd, that's what I mean...some people will have that mindset. Also that whole LeForge/Huron River Drive intersection is a bit dicey.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 09:45:21
A lot of people do have that mindset.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 09:49:44
I'm wondering now if *I* have that mindset, after imagining a huge plasma TV meeting the Michigan Central without ceremony. But I'd never do anything like that. I have done the penny-on-the-rail thing years ago.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-11-30 10:43:33
Stick-built structures are Ypsi's favorite. The Willow Village mind-set took over in the 40s and won't go away. Housing versus houses. Units versus homes. Even bank buildings are sticky. Watch a bank go up on Stadium Blvd with steel and concrete over a year or more. Watch one go up at Paint Creek Crossing (o how i hate those corporate monikers) in a month or less with OSB and vinyl (dont put your valuables in a safe(sic) deposit box there).
Watch dormitories do the same. Stone and steel at UofM over quite a while, sticks clad with brick veneer at EMU, move in tomorrow.
But we needn't worry about the river and the tracks with this new pile of firetrap. Bush&Co want to drain off all the fresh water here to water lawns in Midland, TX. And the railroads? Mexican trucks can do a much cheaper job of transporting goods made in China to Wal-Mart.* * * * * * * * * * * * Mark Maynard - 2004-11-30 10:50:25
It's far too late now, and nothing good can come of mentioning it, but I tried (not hard enough admittedly) to float the idea of making the paper plant into artist/gallery space. By the time I got involved, however, the wheels were already in motion to turn it over to the developer for student housing. My hope, back then, was that the Gallery 555 people could move in, rehab the space, and act at landlords in exchange for some allotment of rent-free space. I thought that it was a great idea, but various people in city government told me to forget it. The reason that most of them gave was that, due to environmental contamination, the space was toxic. I didn't push hard to verify that. In retrospect, I probably should have.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 10:54:37
Mark: That would have been terrific. It's a great idea. I also wonder about the toxins though.
Raymond's note about firetrap banks is an interesting thought and good advice, I think, and not something I'd thought about before. Paint Creek Crossing, if nothing else, preserves the name of the onetime settlement Paint Creek...which used to be down on Willis (not Whittaker). There's also the creek Paint Creek, which winds behind the shop-plex. I guess that's what they named it for. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 10:56:00
(re-thinks Mark's comment about what the city told him, realizes that Water Street is pretty polluted too.......shrugs).* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 11:09:49
i believe at one point edwards communities did mention they were going to put up a fence along the tracks, to eliminate foot traffic (and keep ypsidixit from being able to watch the plasma screen get smashed).
I'm much less worried about the college kids getting hurt (who should know better, and deserve any Darwin Awards they win); what frightens me more is the fact that there is also a population of REAL kids here- you know, the little kind that haven't learned a whole lot yet.
This is a point that both this project, water street, and others leave completely out of the equation. There are many people in Ypsilanti who rent but don't go to EMU. It seems like most policy is designed to cater to those that own nice homes, or else live here part of the year on their parent's tab. This makes the area virtually unlivable for lower income brackets, especially if they have children. Of course, the fact of the matter is that city council doesn't seem to be the least bit interested in this "Middle Group", probably because they haven't yet realized that even though we rent, much of the rent we pay goes to the inflated property taxes.
This is where I have disagreed with others before, on the issue of a city income tax. I would support it on the principle that it would not be contributing to the prohibitively high cost of living in Ypsilanti, and (assuming it's a fairly designed system) could relieve some pressure on the lower- income brackets struggling to survive. (That having been said, I'd vote against it if the current city council would be the ones to implement it, as I know they'd completely mess it up).
Sorry to derail the subject from the mill, which is obviously one of my favorite subjects in and of itself, but this is an important element in the equation.
Finally, nobody seems to have pointed out that if the university needs more housing, then WHY IN THE NAME OF KIRKPATRICK did they just tear down student housing they already had? * * * * * * * * * * * *
brett - 2004-11-30 11:20:52This article:
http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/base/news-11/1101742852166720.xml
in the AA news details an interesting parallel situation in Chelsea worth contemplating. I don't know anything about the building in question, whether it's historically important, etc, but basically the city has a structure they want(ed) to make into a city hall, and then they had a 'study' done to see how much it would be to fix up. Here's the important quote:
But a building advisory committee last year reported that renovating the old building would cost $3.7 million while tearing it down and building a new village hall could cost $5.9 million. Due to the extensive repairs and renovations needed to salvage the building, and $50,000 in maintenance costs a year, the committee recommended the latter option. (endquote)
Now, beyond the obvious question of what rock this 'committee' crawled out from under, the main point is that even when it doesn't make financial sense to do so, Americans generally will opt to have something NEW instead of something OLD.
For Exhibit B, I would suggest one go look at what used to be farm land surrounding Ypsi & AA, and contemplate the long-term survivability of any of those new communites built to feed the American need for 'Having something nobody else had before me". * * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-11-30 11:21:05Brett: no plasma TV mashup? (pouts).
You are right of course about the low-income housing gap (and yes, I agree, isn't that ridiculous about the destruction of those other apartments?--what is the story there?)
(wonders is she agrees with brett's characterization of the cost of living in Ypsi as "prohibitively high")
OK. From pondering everyone's comments here, I keep going back to Eric *'s remark that people don't do anything till it's too late. He's got a point.
So, here's my proposal: a proactive watchdog group. My watchdog group would actively seek out a potentially threatened historic property and, before there's apparently even a real threat to it, start calling around and making contacts. Just so, if nothing else, those in power know that people are monitoring these things. Meddlesome? Sure. Irritating? Perhaps. Might be effective though.
Here's the first property for my watchdog group: the properties belonging to poor Ave Maria. They've got some good ones, all right, some real old beauties. And one hideous flat thing. It's the old beauties I'm concerned with.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 11:31:37
Oops, Brett just beat me to the comments. My TV comment sounds flip after his serious comments, above. Sorry about that.
The Chelsea story is nuts. What are they thinking? Shaking my head here.
Yes, Brett, for all those people who just HAD to have a new house built on former farmland--as you say, how long will those houses last? And then what? Ripped down for new ones? They're not exactly built to last through the ages (as a construction "expert," I can assure you of this). One wonders.
Way out there in the county, I see beautiful graceful old square flat-roofed brick houses from what looks like the 1860s.
One wonders if those bloated new monstrosities out there will be around in 2138?* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 11:33:56
The city is all about revenue right now. A paper mill that was studio space will not generate property taxes close to what the apartment complex will. There was no possible way the Heritage Foundation or the Historic District Commission or anyone could have stopped the paper mill's destruction. And there are watchdog groups already. The YHF and the HDC are the two biggest examples. Before someone complains that those two groups didn't stop the mill's destruction, re-read the first two sentences of this.
The two houses at Ave Maria are fully restored. Considering that there hasn't been a building like that ever torn down, why would they be in danger of anything?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 11:35:18
whoops, don't know how that bold got in there--one moment please......ah, there we go. Now then, back to go read Eric *'s comment...* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 11:35:22
I've lived mainly in ohio, pennsylvania, and maryland, in very similar demographic areas to ypsi, and the rent averaged about half of what it is here. When I last lived in Akron, Ohio, in the Highland Square area (which is regarded as the more artistic, Gay-friendly, cultural part of the city) I had an apartment twice the size of the one I live in now, which was about $300 less per month. Ditto on the years I lived in Kent, Ohio, which is very very similar to Ypsilanti insofar as the college-to-permanent resident ratio.
One aspect of all the cool cities bullshit i can't stand is that it neglects the simple fact that "poor" people can contribute to the community as well, and while it's great to have 'young urban professionals' filling up the tax rolls, space must always be allowed for others who may not be able to afford (or would not want to afford) crap like water st, leforge rd. station, etc.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Eric * - 2004-11-30 11:39:04The poor people and renters are neglected because they don't vote. Look at any data regarding elections in the area and that's what you'll see. Until those kind of people go to the polls in larger numbers, they will be ignored. Can you honestly blame anyone for ignoring those who don't vote? * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 11:40:18
Eric *: Here's a heretical thought. Is it fair to say that the groups you mention are the Old Guard historical preservation groups? A bit overconcerned with fence heights and (plastic, ugh) historical plaques? Do we need some edgier younger-generation historical-preservation groups? People who do cool stuff like historical urbex? Different priorities? New blood?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 11:41:19
Oops, sorry, Eric beat me to the comments; the "groups" I was talking about are the historical groups, not poor people.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura, feverishly typing - 2004-11-30 11:42:10
(stops to mop forehead...phew, it's either feast or famine on this blog). Now then.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 11:44:54
This is a very serious and sincere comment. Before dismissing those two groups, go to a meeting or get to know some of those people. I'd wager you don't know who they are or what they stand for. Jennifer Albaum is a board member of the YHF. She's the owner of Henrietta. She should provide an edgier perspective. Drop her a note.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 11:47:55
I do know people in the YHF, thank you kindly, not that I'll mention any names (and will request that you not do so, either). Perfectly lovely people. I like them as people. But I don't think the group is for me. * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 11:48:50
eric*- it seems to me the city is all about squadering their resources, not getting revenue. What the paper mill could have been used for is obviously a dead issue of sorts now, but it had the potential to be much more than 'studio space'.
As for groups not being able to stop the mill's destruction, that isn't true. As i pointed out to the city and the historic district commission, any chartered city can impose a moritorium on construction if the building is found to be historically important (council or the commission could have initiated this). Also, if one penny of federal dollars was put towards the project then the historic value of the structure must be evaluated per federal law (I have yet to prove if any fed $ was a part of this, though).
Finally, if there is a partnership between emu and the apartments, methinks in a few years a wily lawyer will be able to take the entire property off the tax roll completely (like the rest of EMU). This wouldn't have happened if the structure served a differnt purpose, or even better had been bought by the city itself.
...And before someone says the city doesn't have money to buy properties, I'd remind them the mill was only around $ 1.5 million compared to the $20 million-plus they've put themselves deeper in debt regarding watery street.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-11-30 11:49:19Brett: that's a fairly amazing difference in rent. I can see that being the case with Ann Arbor...but why Ypsi, its proximity notwithstanding?* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 11:50:10
Then what have those two groups failed to do that your group would like to prevent? And why isn't the group for you?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 11:52:40
I'm more of a lone wolf, is what I meant. And there's too much inertia in big groups. Now, I'd rather not hijack this thread--this isn't about me. Back to considerations of poverty, standards of living, the possible future status of the Ave Maria buildings, &c.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 11:56:38
yhf- makes plaques, puts on festival
Hist. Dist. comm.- enforces myopic decorating rules
Ypsi Hist. Society- maintains small archive and a cliche'd house tour.
GROUP X (non-existent)- preserves local historic sites, and raises awareness of local history in the community.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 11:57:11
Don't worry. Fences will never stop tv smashers.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 11:59:47
and i will have to side with eric* about the ava maria buildings. Ypsilanti LOVES their olde tyme italianate mansions, and if anyone threatened them the historic groups in place probably WOULD jump in to protect them. So, I don't think they're really threatened at all.
Plus there's bound to be some residual Jesus-dust or whatever that would ward off evil.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-11-30 12:01:21(yd: it was just a fantasy.....!!!)--besides, I can't lift something that big and bulky. :)
(Bless your heart, Brett, regarding Group X--phew!)
Now, let's brainstorm here: we need a snappy name for Group X. Like Historydog. Well, that's not terribly snappy. Hmm..* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 12:03:39
Well, regarding the Ave Maria Italianates, that's somewhat reassuring. I still will be biting my nails to see who picks them up when Ave Maria dumps them.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 12:06:26
One idea I've been considering, which I think goes to the heart of the whole matter, is to establish the "LeForge Road Regional Historical Society". This would be partly surrealist farce (as the most historical property is completely gone), and partly to make a point that even if a section of town is populated by students, poor non-students, and the Wooden Nickel, it deserves to have its history remembered just as much as the city proper. That plan comes a few steps after what I'm working on now, though, which is the mill project specifically. Updates will follow, of course.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 12:06:58
(or, in a postmodern nod to whatever, it could just be GROUP X. That sounds mysterious and vaguely fear-inducing.) * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 12:09:43
two simple name ideas (which would be sure to offend) are "The Historical Society of Ypsilanti" and "The Greater Ypsilanti Historical Society".* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 12:10:54
Oops, sorry, Brett; once again--no, twice again, ack!--you beat me to the comments. A historical society with surrealistic elements is aces in my book. One that sardonically underlines that the history is gone is good. These are good ideas.
How about historical re-creations/celebrations of vanished buildings, like the Underwear Factory? A little on-site talk/slide show/performance art project, with a live model re-creating the union suited belle at one time painted on the side of the building that used to scandalize/delight passersby on the Michigan Central, as I just learned from my adventurous friend. I'm just brainstorming, here.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 12:11:38
Brett: those last 2 name suggestions are hilarious; I had to laugh. :)* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 12:12:43
'Group X' makes me think of the bland generation i supposedly belong to, a type of chromosone, and the Nation of Islam. I don't personally think those are the images we need to conjure up.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 12:12:46
This is starting to interest me. What would Group X do? Give monthly talks like the YHF and library? Work get Highland Cemetery put on the National Register of Historic Places like the YHF? Publish more books like James Mann's? This has potential.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 12:16:10
Yes, Brett, I agree with you--the whole "X" thing is overdone, for the reasons you state. This is not about chromosones.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 12:21:56
It's beginning to get harder and harder to figure out what anyone is replying to in this thread, but I'll try anyway.
Laura- I already have plans in development for what you mentioned happening at the Knitting Mills. I would rather not get to digressive here, but as I've mentioned my personal experience is primarily in first-person interpretation and so all of my projects will hopefully spiral back to that format. As there is nothing like what I used to do in SE michigan, I've also begun contacting some associates I used to work with who are interested in projects just like the one you outlined.
Eric*- The main thing, more than preserving historic sites or getting things on national registries, is that there is no group currently in place which tries to make 'average' people more appreciative of their surroundings. That's one of the main goals of my own group, and should be the goal of every society dedicated to history.* * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-11-30 12:25:24Brett, that sounds most interesting and fun...now I'm very curious.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 12:26:07
clarification of bad syntax above-
What i meant to say is that the type or performance i did (which wasn't in se michigan) is not done here (nor is it really done where I used to do it, if that makes any sense). So, without having to start enlisting volunteer docents I figured the best thing to do was contact the few people I knew with similar experiences. If someone is doing serious first-person in Michigan, then please -someone- let me know!* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 12:26:53
That's an excellent point Brett. I guess my question would be how you'd propose to do that. The YHF and library give talks each month about different topics of local history and architecture. James Mann gives walking tours every year at the heritage festival. The homes tours give a tremendous amount of history into the individual houses and who lived there. What are you suggesting that would bring out more average people and why don't these current events succeed like you'd hope?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 12:29:04
When I was approached by a YHF member, who will remain nameless, to be a docent for the Home Tour, I protested I knew none of the history and was told to "make it up." I declined. Presumably others didn't. Yep, lots of good history on the Home Tour. * * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 12:30:04
Where's Rustboy when you need him?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 12:32:17
And that's no dinky tour, either. That's the event of the year.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 12:33:52
eric*- one step would be the sorts of performances laura and i are talking about. presentations which are designed to be shocking, absurd, and offensive simply because that's what happens when you let a bit of past reality intrude on the present. The existing talks and tours are important, and if anything should be expanded, but the home tours, for example, tell the history of (sorry to use these terms, but they fit) Capital as opposed to labor. A mansion, whether on the tour, in the case of the Ypsi Hist. Soc., or otherwise, serve zero purpose when it comes to educating the public (especially children) about the past.
One big reason many people don't care about history is because historians generally don't bother making history relevant to them. This is probably a big reason many of those same people don't vote- because they don't feel any sense of representation. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Laura - 2004-11-30 12:41:15It's awfully funny the term "capital" and "labor" come up, because throughout this very enjoyable discussion with Eric * and Brett I was thinking of Brett's comments about the poor, and that I am pretty much the poor/lower middle class, with a tiny house that would not in a thousand years ever be on a home tour....things are starting to resonate in this conversation, and the class issue is emerging in the background. Hope we all still keep talking about it.
Yes, a mansion says little about the past. The past is people of all stripes, not egg-and-dart moldings.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 13:03:27
The homes tours are trying to sell a product. It has to be interesting. While the Willow Run dormitories have a place in history, are they more interesting to tour than the Glover House?
Maybe it's a perspective thing, but Ypsilanti was a city built by the Ainsworths, the Millingtons, the Glovers, the Quirks, the Ballards, etc. Those are the people who created the history. The various mills employed a lot of people, but those people were interchangeable. The working-class always is.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura, just checking - 2004-11-30 13:05:36
Eric *, do you really mean that? Or are you being sarcastic?
Just want to check before reacting, in a rare show (take a picture) of self-control.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:13:33
eric*- following that logic, i suppose you don't think we should study the history of slavery in the south. we should also ignore the 'interchangeables' like the Reuther brothers that started the UAW. Finally, as a corrective move, I suggest anyone that denigrates labor history fully deserves to never have another weekend off, and their children should be sent to work in coal mines regardless of age.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:14:32
the above post is meant to be sarcasm, of course. * * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 13:14:38
It is a serious statement. Look at Oliver Ainsworth. He was a powerful Ypsilantian and a lot is known about him. Can you find anything about the people who worked in his mill?
Before you freak out, think about what I'm saying. Would yours or my histories be compelling to others as compared to JFK or Lester Bangs or Jonas Salk? Probably not, but that doesn't mean we weren't a part of it. * * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-11-30 13:20:46
The Reuther brothers aren't interchangeable, but my grandfather the lifetime UAW member was. You don't read about him in the history books. He was just a part of history like millions of other people. You didn't pick an ordinary person. Walter went on to be the President of the UAW and Victor's spot in history is pretty secure too.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:22:26
eric*- i think the main point, as you said, is that "That doesn't mean we weren't a part of it". Many treatments of history don't recognize the contribution of the 'common folk', and I think that some aspect of the perspective can be improved without making it seem like 'capital' didn't do anything at all. When I pointed out the home tour issue, I wasn't honestly trying to make a sweeping generalization about how society functions. I was simply saying that if you are an "average person" (as i think we all are), your local historical society should be able to provide you with some indication of what your daily life would have been like at another period in time, and a mansion isn't typical. Granted, it's difficult to research families that might not have been well-off enough to preserve their own past, but that doesn't mean you can't try and have at least some success.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 13:24:11
Yes, Eric *, you can find information about millhands. I have a whole book at home called "Stories of Ordinary Americans" which is just that. And I love reading it. Ya gotta dig, though. In the local census records, in the old newspapers, there is indeed information. I find such digging to be more fun and rewarding than reading about rich guys.
Ainsworth was powerful? Well, you'll pardon me for saying...so what? That doesn't equal interesting. It's the human stories, of all stripes, that interest me. Just my opinion.
(This is turning into a very, very interesting discussion indeed about class and the manner of manufacturing of history.)* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 13:27:47
I can relate to the French and Indians in "The Story od Ypsilanti." Which states that they were great loafers. And when ordinary folk would first venture into Ypsilanti, hoards of French and Indians could be seen smoking, napping and generally loafing their way through life.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 13:33:17
That is hilarious, and appealing as well.
Well, I guess we can say the whole place was founded by a bunch of ordinary Hurons, Potowatomi, Ojibwa, and a French fur trader. Guess they played a pretty vital role after all, diamond pinky rings or no.
I have to dig up a copy of that book, pronto--thank you for the reminder, yd.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:35:22
yd- i think the most interesting thing about the french you mentioned is that they got along splendidly with the indians (and did more than just smoke with them). This is in complete contrast to the British method of 'nation building', which ended up winning out (well, technically speaking, European diseases won out, but you get the idea). Although the Colburn book has some of the typical veiled racism of the period, he was fairer than most i've read and his description of the idyllic period before the woodruffs arrived does seem pretty accurate.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 13:40:26
Sounds pretty alluring and indeed idyllic. Yes, as Brett says, my understanding is that the French trappers & traders got along well with indigenous people, often intermarrying, learning their languages, &c. Not so the Brits. * * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 13:40:48
My buddy and I want to set up a historical encampment at Riverside Park during Heritage festival. We want to recreate a loafing scene. Just lie there all day. We're both very good at re-enacting this group.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:45:20
the first trading post was where the recently-coolcityized edison building stands on huron street. I suggest you set up your encampment inside of the transformer out back. Now THAT is anachronism.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 13:50:54
yd: who knew that historical accuracy could also be so funny--I had to laugh when I read that. Thank you.
Brett: That is a wild and oddly alluring idea. I'd love to see that, now that you mention it. That could be very interesting.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:54:12
as a disclaimer, regarding the transformert, it might sterilize the re-enactors, or alternately give them super-powers. While I would hope for the latter, precautions should be made against the former.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:54:19
as a disclaimer, regarding the transformer, it might sterilize the re-enactors, or alternately give them super-powers. While I would hope for the latter, precautions should be made against the former.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 13:55:25
How funny; now I'm picturing a comic book (concerning the latter).* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 13:56:09
ONLY civilised, slightly decadent people know the art of loafing -- the joy of doing nothing in an unhurried, elegant manner. On the other hand, modern folks feel guilty when they are not constantly being occupied with activity, any activity. Our age is one of crises, and men's souls are continually thrilled by the call to duty, to go global, to outsource, to keep up with technological progress, to build a better Web site, to smash down the old brick-and-mortar world and build the new digital world. Let me raise another voice -- the call to leisure and sheer idleness. There is no justification, really, why we must live busy, anxious lives. We need to re-learn the art of leisurely living, the art of being deliberately left behind in the rat race. The words of a whisky advertisement encourage us to drop everything and have a slow drink: "Even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat," it warns. * * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 13:56:10
ONLY civilised, slightly decadent people know the art of loafing -- the joy of doing nothing in an unhurried, elegant manner. On the other hand, modern folks feel guilty when they are not constantly being occupied with activity, any activity. Our age is one of crises, and men's souls are continually thrilled by the call to duty, to go global, to outsource, to keep up with technological progress, to build a better Web site, to smash down the old brick-and-mortar world and build the new digital world. Let me raise another voice -- the call to leisure and sheer idleness. There is no justification, really, why we must live busy, anxious lives. We need to re-learn the art of leisurely living, the art of being deliberately left behind in the rat race. The words of a whisky advertisement encourage us to drop everything and have a slow drink: "Even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat," it warns. * * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-11-30 13:57:55
between the loafing encampment and the beer-making attraction i volunteer to do the drunken exhibit* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 13:58:16
contemplate the lillies of the field. they neither toil, nor do they spin, but even solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:00:57
This is so well said. You are right on the money, yd. It takes civilized people to loaf with sensuality and enjoyment, guilt-free. I strongly agree with the whole philosophy you express vis a vis the rat race.
And I happily answer the call to idleness. Nicely put, YD.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:03:21
Culture is essentially a product of leisure. The art of culture is therefore essentially the art of loafing. From the Chinese point of view, the man who is wisely idle is the most cultured man. For there seems to be a philosophic contradiction between being busy and being wise. Those who are wise won't be busy, and those who are too busy can't be wise. The wisest man is therefore he who loafs most gracefully. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:04:51
oops, raymond and brett beat me. Nicely said, Brett. I've always loved that quote.
Raymond, sounds like this whole re-creation is enlarging fast...* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:06:10
YD, that is beautifully said. I agree with you. I think what you say above is wise. I agree. Thank you for this graceful thought.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:06:10
How in the hell did we get from Leforge to Loafing? Kind of like the title of a Plat book I have "Ann Arbor to Freedom"* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 14:10:16
not to bring the conversation down too much, but I'd like to point out the cliche of the "Idle Rich", who regard themselves as very productive because they're making money, and regard MOST people as 'Idlers' because they aren't making as much money, despite expending much more energy. "Idle" is a very subjective term, and is often applied in some way to artists, writers, teachers, and others in society who produce intangibles which can't be put into financial figures. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:11:28
YD: Oh, how funny--I had to laugh.
Just out of curiosity, may I ask what year is that plat map book? I so love looking at plat maps, never get tired of that. I recently found the name of an 1850s farmer who gave the name to my street & a couple of nearby ones. Very interesting, and informative, are plat maps. * * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:11:40
To be honest, I loaf too much to make these quotes up myself.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:13:12
YD: Even funnier; this is turning into such a delightful conversation.
Brett: a good point about the wielding of words, thank you.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 14:14:33
i think 'loafing' as we're calling it is actually just the state of being relaxed, which is essential if one wants to percieve their environs accurately without the distraction of worry. Here on leforge road, most people have money or school to worry about, and as such didn't take the time to notice or appreciate the paper mill which was such a huge part of their environment.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:14:56
It is a late 1980"s plat book(s) I swiped from a vacant real estate office. Good for showing the aggressive neighbor where the property lines are. The titles are AA to Freedom, and Sharon to Ypsi I forget the middle volume title.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-11-30 14:15:30
I've stopped so often to smell the flowers that my nose is plugged with pollen. And why ain't that shed rebuilt yet? It's gettin' cold out.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:19:59
Ahh... Historical shed rebuilding. A good loafer can take years to do this if he ain't married.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:27:18
(laughs at yd's shed comment).
Brett: yes, you're doubtless right. One more reason to lead the low-key life of an oblate.
Raymond: I stop to smell the flowers, too, and my storm windows are still not pulled down...
Incidentally, Ypsidixit's adventurous friend informs her via email that copies of "The Story of Ypsilanti" may be purchased from the Ypsi Historical Museum gift shop for a measly $10 a copy. The museum is open on Saturdays from 2 to 4 p.m. if I remember right. * * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:28:34
Ok, So the Leforge building is a big firebox piece of crap, which pays no homage to our loafing ancestors. But maybe there will be enough additional tax revenue to fix the city salt storage building so the salt isn't pouring out the sides. And fireman need jobs too, they can't loaf all day.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:31:44
"...which pays no homage to our loafing ancestors" (laughs out loud) how funny!
I dimly remember seeing a salt storage building; may I ask, yd, is it behind the DPW barn, across from the Keg? Just wondering.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:33:00
Boycott the Keg!* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-11-30 14:33:09
Got a tattered 1920s realtor plat book. "Ruben the Realtor" or somethin' like that. Lotsa fun. Our shed ain't historical. More like hysterical.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:34:16
"Paying Homage to Our Loafing Ancestors" might be a good legend to paint on tne banner to hang over our Heritage Festival re-creation of historical loafing (and beermaking, plus a skillful reconstruction of period drunkenness).* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:35:50
I can dream of being a true loafer of the past, along the Huron, but what about soccer moms in "screw me pants?" Gotta love those.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:36:14
Raymond: Plat books are so fascinating. Y's A.F. has one with plats from 1830/1850/1890 or the like, from every township in the county--I could look at that for hours.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 14:37:15
I can look at screw me pants for hours* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-11-30 14:38:33
Too bad The Keg is such a rat-hole. I really like my red Keg t-shirt. I wore it in London and NYC, though. Discovered this week-end that the former owner of the Keg is selling real estate, including a vinyl wonder right near us.
We do need more salt on the roads. The holes in the truck are not quite big enough to drive a truck through.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:39:46
The Historical Museum in Lansing has an especially lavish collection of every plat map you ever might want, an invaluable resource. From every year, if I recollect right. Any MI resident can borrow books for free, somewhat amazingly (considering the value of the books).* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:41:36
Yes, before I stopped going to the Keg, I never thought it was terribly clean. Haven't been since.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 14:41:52
in other news,
http://www.athensnews.com/issue/article.php3?story_id=18827
this is an article about apartments at ohio university in athens, which are old and being evaluated for improvements. Basically, they asked a number of developers what they would suggest doing about them, and every one of the half-dozen or so offers a plan for renovation-
EXCEPT for one developer, Edwards Communities, that recommends demolishing them and then building from scratch. Edwards, if anyone is keeping score, is the group that also demolished peninsular.* * * * * * * * * * * *
yd - 2004-11-30 14:42:28You can get your bling-on at the keg. Well, unless your black.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:43:52
Wow. Great link, Brett. I think I'll dig around a bit this eve for info on Edwards. Wonder if they'll be enlisted in the future for additional Ypsi "development" projects.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 14:48:15
"SOME PEOPLE ONLY LIVE THIS WAY TWO WEEKS A YEAR!
http://www.edwardscommunities.com/
* * * * * * * * * * * *
yd - 2004-11-30 14:49:33Does anyone really miss the vacant paper mill? Does anyone really think it could have been renovated? Does anyone think that Water Street is a good idea. Real estate investment is huge right now as it has been giving good returns when most other avenues haven't. What do people think will happen to these cheap ass places when the money shrinks? More Ypsi gettos to watch burn on cold nights with your friends.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 14:51:02
the site may disappoint you, as most of it seems to consist of broken links.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
yd - 2004-11-30 14:51:16Cool, more soccer moms coming!* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 14:53:45
Brett: that is hilarious. Looks like quite the earthly paradise. Like a modern version of Hieronymous Bosch's "Garden of Earthly Delight."* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 14:55:56
i miss the mill, and yes, it could have been renovated. If it could NOT have been renovated, I'm pretty confident that federal brownfield grants would have been applied for, and they weren't.
As for renovating old mills, exhibit A:
http://www.quakersquare.com/* * * * * * * * * * * *
Brett: That's a good point about the brownfield grants for cleanup. Wonder why they weren't pursued. Maybe it would have been possible to clean the place.
I also miss the mill.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:00:02
Concerning that funny Edwards "two weeks a year" photo, there's a guy peering into a laptop. What's so Nirvanaish about working on a computer? At any rate...* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:01:24
ok,ok, I admit it, sniff, I miss the mill too, I used to love watching loose kids blowing off fire extinguishers all around and in it. * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 15:02:10
as for the above picture, my favorite part is the paddleboat. If I had known the mill would be replaced with a paddleboat pond, that would certainly have changed my attitude. The other important lessons from the image are that if you live there, your sports team will always win, you'll be friends with people of other races, And each apartment comes with monogrammed towels.
Most importantly, some hack apparently just discovered the clone tool on photoshop, but had to submit this picture before they had quite mastered it.* * * * * * * * * * * *
yd - 2004-11-30 15:03:05I had a picture of Earthly delights over my toilet for years, until I was told to take it down recently.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:05:04
Hopefully, I can kayak down to the apartments and spy soccer moms this summer. The fishermen just ain't doing for me anymore.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:05:55
"each apartment comes with monogrammed towels" (laughs).
Yes, I haven't seen the paddleboat show up yet at the LeForge site. I hate to say it, but doesn't the dam present a bit of a hazard to well-meaning Edwards Communities paddleboaters tooling peacefully around on the Huron? I hate to imagine what looks like a tippy, shallow-draft watercraft teetering over the foaming white torrent at the dam. Have these people really thought this out?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:07:44
yd: One suspects there's more to that "earthly delights" comment than meets the eye.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:08:59
I saw a guy go over the falls in a canoe a couple years ago. It took him a couple tries of getting stuck before he glided over the edge, crookedly. It was hilarious. He was drunk. Some a-whole tries it every year.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:10:55
T'was my favorite painting of all time. Everytime I look at it I see something different. But some don't appreciate the flowers being stuck up the guys you know..* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:12:14
Now I can only look at it when I'm in the basement doing laundry.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:13:40
Geez. Sounds like a good way to break your neck...I'm worried about those innocent, fun-seeking paddleboaters now. Maybe (just brainstorming) Edwards could greenwash itself as an eco-responsible "neighbor" by casting the p-boats as a sustainable form of transport to Ann Arbor. * * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:15:26
There is about 1000 grocery carts in the water between Leforge and Ford Lake. We could form a committee to gather them in a big circle to make a paddleboat pond for the soccer moms.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-11-30 15:19:50
i had always assumed those shopping carts were an environmental effort by farmer jack to provide an important reef ecosystem to the wildife of the huron. * * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:21:08
Whats more important? Soccer moms or some dam ducks?* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:22:18
I never knew about the carts. I'd like to know the stories of how they came to end up in the water, for sure. Very interesting, yd.
I'm still stuck on that hypey picture Brett posted. Really, now, is that the best we can expect from life? Is that what we'd choose to do for our 2-week vacation each year? Not me. I'd rather disappear into the leafy dimness of the Waterloo Nature Area. To loaf.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:22:44
What we need is more fish ladders on the dams so we get steelhead and salmon at Leforge. Then I could quit my job and loaf all fall.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:24:57
Yes, that is the best we can expect from life dam it. Get used to it. Only dead fish go with the flow.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:25:48
Brett: ach!
yd: Now there's an interesting thought. Could the Huron support those species? Or is it too polluted/temperate? You may have been joking, but it's a very intriguing idea. I see guys fishing in Gallup but it's mostly little bluegills, if I am IDing the fish right.* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:26:57
Steelhead and salmon make it to Flatrock dam where they are snagged and caught by hillbillies. Why shouldn't Ypsi hillbillys be able to do it?* * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:28:19
I went to MSU for a couple of years. I used to snag salmon in front of the library and cook em in the dorm room toaster oven. College just ain't the same at Eastern.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:28:44
Sport fishing for salmon or steelhead in a big watery "pen" consisting of Ford Lake to the Huron up through Ypsi to the AA dam? Sounds like it might be a real draw to the area.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:29:51
yd's MSU story: boy, does that sound like heaven. I'd love that. Bet it was awfully good. * * * * * * * * * * * * yd - 2004-11-30 15:34:58
UNfortunately, it is all a loafers dream. The Huron keeps getting worse. More development along it all the time, more sewage to treat by Dixboro, more rotting sewer lines leaching into it, more grocery carts, more microwaves, less oxygen for fish all the time.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:37:09
That makes me sad. We've come a long way since the Hurons loafed in Riverside Park. Getting a drink of water when they felt like it.* * * * * * * * * * * * Travis Bickle - 2004-11-30 15:43:08
Some day a big storm will come and wash all the filth and scum down the sewers.* * * * * * * * * * * * Ypsidweller - 2004-11-30 15:45:41
And we will live to loaf again. The End.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-11-30 15:55:12
Yes. Good ending. And we will live to loaf again. The End.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-11-30 20:23:53
well half a loaf is better than no roof at all* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: