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Comments:
raymond - 2004-09-22 10:45:12 I swear, Raymond, you crack me up. :)* * * * * * * * * * * * addiann - 2004-09-22 10:48:28 this is a horrible bill - I see that the story is dated May 20. Do you know if the Senate has voted on the bill yet? no news about Ms. Granholm signing it, and I'd think that would get some protesters out... * * * * * * * * * * * * addiann - 2004-09-22 10:52:06 a song-bird shoot - with their newly legal automatic rifles. Ya don't have to be as good a shot.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 10:52:20 Yes, it's an old story...I'm digging around to try and find out if it passed the Senate.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 10:55:37 oops, you beat me to the comments...wow, is hunting allowed with automatic weapons?! * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura, again - 2004-09-22 10:56:18 (I know you were kidding, but it made me curious).* * * * * * * * * * * * eric - 2004-09-22 11:04:54 i can't stand it ! this has got to be the dumbest and most encroaching thing the state has pulled yet!! i think i heard this morning that it did pass..(to bleary eyed - er - eared)and you know goodygoody jennie will sign it. she is such a wuss ! oh well, i pity the po' fools making them wedding plans! just glad i got divorced when i did ! - there was no trauma for my kids;better than watching mom and pop argue all the time...and i did'nt end up in the poor house to boot ! do i sound bitter ? hee hee* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 11:10:20 Indeed--I also am mighty thankful I cut the knot before this slid through, too. Eric, I also thought I heard something-or-other on the radio about this. Did you note that the bill also mandates "premarital education classes"? What the hell does the State know about what my marriage might mean? Oh, I can't stand it, either.* * * * * * * * * * * * eric - 2004-09-22 11:36:05 well,the premaritial classes sound good (just kidding);if i had taken one maybe i would have wised up a bit to what was coming down the pike ! "it's a light at the end of the tunnel !........NO WAIT ! IT'S A TRAIN !!!!" i was listening to wwj when i heard it..i fear the worst...* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 11:40:33 I note you can take the stupid class and get your certificate in 3 days, or you can be stubborn and prickly like me and have to wait for 28 days. Completely unfair. And what particularly revolts me is the insinuation that marriage can be standardized, like a corporate deathburger. One class fits all. I really, REALLY don't think so, and I think it's beneath the dignity of two people who've decided to spend their lives together* to have to sit in a disgustingly sticky courthouse desk somewhere and listen to a lecture from some social worker who wouldn't know them from Adam. *as a divorcee of course I'm an expert on marriage.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-09-22 12:18:00 Too many people get married. If I had to wait until I was 35 before I could run for President of the United States, then people should have to wait until they are at least 30 to marry.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 12:40:22 I agree with that completely.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-09-22 12:46:33 Oh dear. My heart's all a flutter now.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2004-09-22 12:47:24 I disagree completely. Government should stay the hell out of our personal business with very few exceptions (children being abused, undernourished, etc.). In fact, "marriage" should have nothing to do with government whatsoever. The only useful governmental (distinct from emotional/familial, which are of course very important, but which should be left firmly in peoples' personal lives) purpose it serves, in my opinion, is determining next-of-kin during emergencies and deaths, and that could just as easily be determined through the filing of a "next-of-kin declaration". Oh, and child custody, which also has nothing to do with marriage (rather has to do with whether both parents reside in the same household). The rest of it can be handled by individual contracts (e.g. what happens to joint property in the event of a split).* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 12:53:03 Anna, I should have said I agreed with Eric in principle, but I wouldn't dream of voting for such an age-limit law. I'm with you--I personally think government has no business regulating marriage.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 12:55:37 (um, Eric *--I thought you said you were hitched--no fluttering allowed I'm afraid).* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2004-09-22 14:07:43 I meant with Eric...* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 14:08:48 oops. sorry.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 15:12:02 no offense, but it seems pretty obvious to me that anyone who has been divorced themselves will then hold the opinion that all divorce is justified, no big deal, they didn't need to take a class, etc. My 'wife' and I have never bothered to have our relationship officiated after 12 years of cohabitation- because she and i see the ridiculous and conflicting attitudes in this country regarding marriage, i.e. two perfectly normal gays can't marry or adopt while any other idiot can get married and divorced a hundred times, have as many kids as they want, treat them like shit, and still get a pat on the back from the government and most churches for having 'good family values'. I personally see nothing wrong with the proposed class, as I think most anyone who runs full speed into marriage and child-rearing only to realize later they don't like it for whatever reason probably deserves some serious instruction on reponsibility anyway. If you want to complain about michigan marriage law, how about the fact that the only non-governmental employees allowed to officiate a ceremony have to be a state-recognized 'minister of scripture'? While I'm sure nobody's ever going to make a case out of it or anull any unions, this 'technically' means that even muslim and jewish ceremonies aren't recognized in the state. I personally feel that centuries-old practice of 'Common Law Marriage', which is also illegal and unrecognized here, is the only form of certification which makes any reasonable sense at all. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 15:21:35 no offense taken of course--point well taken. I agree with you completely about gay marriage vs. any straight person marrying a hundred times. That "minister of scripture" is interesting--didn't know that. If as you say it's a lack of personal responsibility--a character defect, not a teachable skill--that leads to divorce, then I'm not sure any class, forced on someone during one of the most difficult times of their life, can "teach" responsibility.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 15:39:51 well, none of us know what the class specifically teaches, but there are certainly a few things it could that might be useful. If not, I think it at least serves to some extent as a (very)small punishment for behavior that can certainly be harmful to children. My parents are divorced, and I can assure you that it causes plenty of strange, unexpected troubles for the rest of your life which have nothing to do with emotions, but rather the practicality of any individual dealing logistically with multiple yet separate sub-families. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 15:42:13 Well, that is certainly an intriguing comment...if you don't mind my asking what do you mean by that? If you'd rather not go into it, that's fine of course.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 16:30:53 sure, just let me lay down on this leather couch first. seriously, what i meant was that, for example, a class might teach parents not to expect to both see their children on specific holidays. As I said, the issue really isn't so much an emotional one as it is logistics, and the pressure in situations like this always falls on the child's shoulders. My wife's parents are still married, and when we visit that means all of her relatives (siblings, aunts& uncles, grandparents, etc) are at one big family gathering with a group prayer, a dinner, and then she's finished with settling that holiday's familial obligations. I, on the other hand, need to make no fewer than 5 separate visits to see all of my family, due to the fact that there is no longer a unified 'core couple' to warrant everyone meeting together at once. I can assure you that when my parents decided to get divorced, the time I would be compelled to spend every year driving around during blizzards in Pittsburgh (where I was born, and where most of them still reside)was not something they even remotely considered. Now, back to the original subject of this thread. I'm not saying for one minute that I feel my parents made the wrong decision to divorce, but rather that these and other issues are things I do wish they had prepared THEMSELVES for better; and if the only way they could have learned about possible issues like this was through taking a mandatory class for a few hours, then I think it would have been a completely reasonable requirement before proccessing the divorce papers. As additional clarification, I'm also an only child which complicates the matter further, as I don't have a sibling to "cover for me" when I can't make it to something. * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 19:01:56 (two hours later) ...(sniffle sniffle)....and another thing, dr. dixit, is that I never really felt like my parents understood me (sniffle sniffle) and should have been more supportive of...(sniffle).... Um, can I get up off this couch yet?* * * * * * * * * * * * Dr. Dixit - 2004-09-22 19:11:03 Oops, sorry for the 2 hours--I was on the road. Your post is illuminating about the consequences of divorce. I'm a bit humbled, actually, that you were so kind to talk about something so personal. Thank you. My folks are married, for 38 years now, so a post like yours opens up a window on a different situation and helps me understand it. I appreciate it.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 19:29:00 so....(sniffle).....am i cured? * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 20:33:08 I don't know about that, but I valued your post.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2004-09-22 22:18:48 I've never been divorced, but my parents -- married for 38 years in August -- recently announced their intentions to divorce. It is already a logistical nightmare, but I doubt some classes in 1962 would have helped. From my perspective, it seems silly to require people who are going to at least *try* to be a married couple before they have kids to have to take a class, when any two people who have unprotected sex can have kids without even trying to be together for the sake of logistics, stability, etc. etc. etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-23 06:11:53 Anna, I am very sorry to hear that. I agree with you--the class seems superficial when such cataclysmic events as divorce are happening.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-09-23 08:03:05 i was married for 21 years to a teacher. does that count as a class? since that cohabitation ended, the ensuing and present has attained its 25th year. i guess someone learned something somewhere somehow.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-23 09:01:23 25 years: congratulations! That is great! Some day I hope to be able to say the same.* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: |