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Comments:
raymond - 2004-09-21 16:39:53 (there you are...I was starting to wonder). Yes, why do these studies cost so much? Ignorant question: can't the city do its own analysis without springing for a costly study? What needs analyzing, anyways?* * * * * * * * * * * * Rustboy - 2004-09-21 20:15:41 The $20,000 study sounds high BUT they are going to have to show me how I will benefit. The city wants to tax people who work here but don't live here MORE and reduce the property tax of people who live here. ? Here is the quote from the article: "The hope is that Ypsilanti will be able raise enough money to lower property tax rates, restore services and stabilize income, LaRue said. Otherwise it is not worth the trouble, he said. Peter Fletcher, a member of the special finance committee appointed by the city last year, said the income tax would allow the city to collect revenues from people who work in businesses that don't pay property taxes in the city, such as Eastern Michigan University. The university employees 2,088 people, with most of them living outside the Ypsilanti area." If they can demonstrate that our taxes will not go up more I wouldn't mind it. My taxes are high enough. But, I can't say that that would encourage outside business to come here.... ? -Patrick* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-21 20:51:01 It sure wouldn't. And it must be said I pay taxes to the Township, not the city. I'm still pondering that city-clerk salary of $56K, I think it was. To me, who works at least 50 hours a week for a whole lot less, it still seems awfully munificent. I wouldn't mind if $56K were going to a cop or firefighter. But a city clerk? I think I need to try and dig up a list of city salaries. For a desperately cash-strapped city, $56K for a desk job seems just a tad out of line to me.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-09-21 21:05:21 I think you are off-base on this one. Salaries can't be tied to a city's financial situation. They have to be competitive to similar positions elsewhere. The City Clerk in Taylor earns $66K. The City Clerk in Dearborn makes more than that. I also don't get how you are trying to tie in the Recreation Dept. Cities around the state are cash strapped because of bad policy coming out of Lansing.* * * * * * * * * * * * lynne - 2004-09-21 21:23:26 I guess if it means that the city would be able to get some money from EMU (which doesnt pay property taxes) I might go for it but I worry that it will discourage businesses from opening in Ypsilanti. I think Ann Arbor is considering a similar income tax and that worries me too because I work in Ann Arbor. * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-21 21:34:09 Eric, sorry, I took out the Rec. Dept. bit because it seemed a little irrelevant. I don't care if it's comparative--that doesn't mean that administrative salaries are too high in general, and it's still too high for a city in Ypsi's precarious position. For the time being, salaries like that have to come down. Lynne, I'm still clueless as to why U's don't pay property taxes. Yes, you are right, AA is considering a similar tax (bummer for similarly AA-working me). AA might consider getting rid of its city ornithologist and city entomologist before taxing me, for God's sake.* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-09-21 21:48:47 Using your logic, one might say that the city needs to raise property taxes 10 mills, for the time being, just to make ends meet. That would go over like a lead zeppelin. A better example might be someone's job in the auto industry. If GM loses money in a fiscal year, should people take cuts in salary? AA has it written into their city charter that you can't have both an income tax and property taxes.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-21 22:18:17 Eric *, I didn't know the bit about AA having that stipulation in the charter--that's interesting. In which case we're safe from an AA income tax, surely. No way would the city give up Barton Hills property taxes. Ypsi couldn't raise prop. taxes 10 mills. We're at 19-something mills right now and the limit is 20.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura again - 2004-09-21 22:27:22 (Well, I for one will be at the council meeting to hear the details.) * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 00:26:39 I see nothing wrong with raising taxes, be they federal OR local, property OR income, provided said money is put to good use for the community. In ypsilanti there isn't enough money (partly due to the headley amendment, partly to lack of decent jobs) and the city is dangerously irresponsible with what little it has. I'd gladly vote for a reasonable tax increase if I knew for certain the money wouldn't be blown on boondoggles like we now see in basically every corner of the city (water street, leforge road, depot town gateway, etc...). I think most people are willing to spend some money if they know they'll get something in return for it. * * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 00:38:03 ...and the $20,000 question is a simple one to answer. Governments and corporations make decisions to do something in private, and then pay for useless 'studies' like this one publicly, so that if the plan backfires in a few years they can cover their asses by showing how much they spent trying to get good advice.* * * * * * * * * * * * brett - 2004-09-22 00:59:44 ...and finally, in reply to eric*'s comment above, in years when GM has turned a huge annual profit they've been known to cut wages AND lay off thousands of people. So I hope we don't use them as the belleweather of logical fiscal policy.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 06:15:23 3 great comments from Brett; thanks Brett. Ah yes, the fabled Depot Town Gateway. Involving the construction of purposeless arches over Cross Street bridge, if I remember. Just the thought of such inviting arches mkes me want to visit Depot Town, never mind that I'd be coming from the Prospect Park side of things. Very misguided project. If they want people to come to Depot Town, they could sink a bit of cash into the beloved Freight House so that it has a vibrant schedule of programs (and bring back the Sat. a.m. music!) Incidentally, someone in the know tells me that the "structural unsoundness" of the FH involves one big beam running under the cafe...should be, relatively, fixable.* * * * * * * * * * * * raymond - 2004-09-22 07:42:04 How 'bout a city sales tax? They'd bring in maybe, what? 15 bucks a week? Or just put up a toll booth at each border entry point.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 08:53:06 Although all too grimly true, I still had to laugh--a little, anyways--at the sales tax idea. I do wish the relatively well-off township would allow the city to merge--their fates are one, and should share revenues and services. But I that'll never happen.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2004-09-22 09:35:59 Laura, the U's don't pay property because the property belongs to the state of Michigan, and by law governmental units don't pay property taxes to other governmental units. The state does not pay any property taxes on any state-owned property, including university property, state parks, office buildings, state police posts, etc. The city of Ann Arbor is thinking of building a maintenance facility in Pittsfield Twp, and if it does, will not pay property taxes to Pittsfield Twp on the property it purchases there. As for A2 city income tax, eric * is right about the charter restriction. The city is contemplating asking to voters to change to charter to allow both property taxes and income taxes. The last time the city tried this, quite a while ago, the voters said no. The City of Ann Arbor does not collect property taxes from Barton Hills, since it is in Ann Arbor Twp.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2004-09-22 09:39:13 Hell, it should read "The city is contemplating asking the voters to change the charter to allow both property taxes and income taxes." I really ought to proofread this stuff before I post it.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 09:39:19 Thanks for the info and corrections, Tom. I finally understand the property tax exemption reason, which I didn't before. Good explanation. And silly me, I made a mistake about Barton Hills and should have realized it's outside the city limits. That was dumb. But I was just using it as an example, although a better one would have been the OFW. At any rate.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura again - 2004-09-22 09:44:09 (now I'm wondering why governmental units don't pay taxes to other governmental units...)* * * * * * * * * * * * Eric * - 2004-09-22 10:23:19 AA looked at starting an income tax and foregoing part of their property taxes back in 1996. The city doesn't have to get rid of the part of property taxes that pays for city services like fire, police, etc. The study concluded that AA could make $7M more a year with an income tax than just property taxes.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-09-22 10:27:34 That's a good clarification, Eric *, thanks. Sounds like you know a lot about it. Appreciate the info--I'm pretty clueless in this area but interested to learn.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2004-09-22 10:36:19 This article appeared in the Freep not too long ago regarding city income taxes in AA and Mt. Clemens.* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: |