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Comments:
Murph - 2004-05-18 23:51:48 hmmm, I'll have to read the editorial, but I don't think forced bussing was a direct result of Brown. Brown struck down "de jure" (legally mandated) segregated schools, but later decisions tried to reverse "de facto" segregation, that is, schools which were segregated due to housing patterns. It was these later decisions which led to forced bussing to achieve some semblance of racial balance in the Detroit schools. During the 1970s, because the suburban districts were almost all white and the Detroit district was almost all black, cross-district forced bussing was proposed, but never implemented due to fierce resistance from the burbs, and, to a much lesser extent, from Detroit parents who did not want their kids bussed miles away. Again, I will have to read the editorial so maybe it covered this, but what really accelerated white flight from Detroit was the 1967 riots. I have forgotten the exact statistics, but before 1967, Detroit was majority white, but in a relatively short time after 1967, Detroit was majority black. (btw, I lived in the Detroit suburbs from the time I was born in 1955 until a few years ago when I move to AA, and lived through the turmoil of those years.)* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2004-05-19 08:09:14 oops, sorry about the bold, I meant to do a break.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2004-05-19 11:31:11 I'd bet that white flight as much (more?) to do with economics as with not wanting their kids in the same school than black kids. Most move to as affluent a place as they can afford, so that their kids will go to as good a school as the family can provide. Assuming that, on average, white households made more money than black households, having the schools become integrated meant less money per capita for each student. I grew up in a white suburb, and nobody had trouble with the few African American families in town since they, too, were surgeons, dentists, and lawyers. The social issue was more akin classism than racism -- people didn't want low-income whites to move in, any more than they wanted low-income people-of-color.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2004-05-19 11:32:05 holy bold -- I didn't even attempt line breaks.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-05-19 11:34:04 well, fooey--sorry about that, folks. Let's see if this fixes it...* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-05-19 11:35:36 Ah, there we go. OK, carry on please!--thank you to everyone above, who contributed thoughtful comments examining this issue.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2004-05-19 12:17:53 Anna, I have to disagree with you. Many of the lily-white suburbs (e.g., Dearborn, Allen Park) were white because many of the people who lived there did not want to live with blacks. Orville Hubbard, the long-serving mayor of Dearborn, was an overt racist elected in large part because he kept minorities out of Dearborn (and he used a word other than "minorities"). Black families found it almost impossible to buy homes in the suburbs. Those very few who somehow managed to move into these burbs, no matter what their income level, were harassed, threatened and intimidated until they fled somewhere else. Certainly things are somewhat different now than they were in the 1950s-1970s, when most of the white flight took place, but at that time racism was at the core of the white move to the suburbs. * * * * * * * * * * * * Hillary - 2004-05-19 12:49:58 The racial make-up of Southeast MI changed in the 40s when Ford bussed thousands of black people from the south to make war machines. The Sojourner Truth housing riots of 1942 were caused by a tenement for black workers having been built in a white neighborhood. The most desructive race war in Detroit history followed in 1943 when black and white mobs took over Woodward. 34 killed, 700 wounded. As Tom points out, the schools are racially segregated in MI because the neighborhoods are segregated. Real estate agents and banks are the cause. Real estate agents sold one house in a white neighborhood to a black family and then told all the white folks that black people were moving in and that the property values in the neighborhood were going to plummet. The white people would try to sell as fast as they could, often at a loss. The banks had a policy of red-lining. They would only give you a loan in an area if you were of the right race. Banks had red-lining poicies until the passage of the Equal Lending and Housing Opportunity Acts in the 70's. Detroit is still getting screwed by the auto insurance companies. I think schools should be funded evenly and at the state level. To those who would say, "funding isn't an indicator of school success": What's the problem? By your theory, the rich kids shouldn't be harmed at all by the decreased funding.* * * * * * * * * * * * Hillary - 2004-05-19 12:58:18 I agree completely, Tom. The 4th pic down on this site says it all: http://www.atdetroit.net/forum/messages/11556/17106.html?1069761785* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-05-19 13:34:19 Wow. Thank you for the link, Hillary. I am ashamed to say I hadn't even heard of riots in 1943. Now I'm curious to learn more about the history and circumstances.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2004-05-20 09:38:48 I didn't grow up in Michigan, so the situation may have been different in my state, which isn't one noted for racial tension (although of course it exists, but nothing like what appears to be the case in MI).* * * * * * * * * * * * Murph - 2004-05-20 10:49:12 Most of these other theories are also things discussed in my theory class...I don't know a whole lot about the '43 riots, except that they existed. White flight was well underway before '67, though. Tom points out that Detroit was majority white before and majority black after, but the white demographic was dropping fairly quickly even before the riots. Coleman Young is often cited as a "last straw" cause of white flight; he came in with a strong "Detroit is a black city!" message, and a lot of the whites who had made it that far decided this was an invitation to leave.* * * * * * * * * * * * Anna - 2004-05-20 11:19:06 What Hilary said about red-lining is of course true. The heart of redlining is racism, but the body of redlining is economic -- and one can't work without the other. People are driven just as much by greed as by hate. * * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2004-05-20 11:22:58 Murph, I agree with all your comments. What would be interesting to know are the statistics for middle-class black out-migration from the city of Detroit to suburbs. I personally know some middle-class or professional-class black families who left the city for suburbs such as Southfield (mostly Southfield) because they could not deal with the problems of the city any longer.* * * * * * * * * * * * Laura - 2004-05-20 18:38:50 I agree, those stats would be interesting to know, and I really value the urban studies people who are weighing in on this and contributing their knowledge. As you know there have been some signs of life stirring in Detroit recently--the new Millenium Park on the waterfront, the talked-about renovation of the old Michigan Central station into police headquarters, the movement of Compuware (?) downtown...and projects spurred by the coming Superbowl. I just hope that these elements can knit together into a viable longterm rejuvenation instead of being isolated incidents.* * * * * * * * * * * * tom - 2004-05-21 13:19:39 I guess I've been around too long to have any confidence that big-money projects like those will do much of anything. There was the Renaissance Center, the Cobo expansion, Hart Plaza, Chene Park, Joe Louis Arena, those monstrous and idiotic casinos, etc, etc, etc that were all supposed to revitalize Detroit, get the city moving again, improve lives, yada yada. But none of them did anything about the dysfunctional schools, dangerous neighborhoods, the other social pathologies people struggle with in the city, or the corrupt police, or the bloated and inefficient city bureacracy that stifles so much in Detroit. (and who the hell can spell "renaissance" without looking it up???) What does encourage me is the development of new housing in the city, for example on Woodward near the Fox, or on Lafayette (I think) east of Woodward. The fact that people are moving into the city, instead of fleeing, will I hope generate a core of people who are not struggling with daily survival who will demand, from the bottom up, improvements in the schools, police, city bureacracy, etc.* * * * * * * * * * * * add your comment: |